I just feel like he's dumb enough to sit on his hands instead of making a lesser deal now. I really dont think there are many teams who have the farm system depth we do, and the eagerness to trade prospects plus take on salary. Look at the Cardinals. I think our system is much deeper, and we have three elite guys at the top, they have 1. Rangers can't afford his salary this year.

Something else.

If Halladay were traded today, I believe he'd have about $6.87M left on his contract.

If we added another prospect to the deal, I bet Toronto would offer to pick up most of that. They'll be sellers, not buyers at the deadline, and they can afford to keep his salary for this year, not next.

that clears one hurdle then.

if we can build this deal around taylor and carrasco and keep drabek, it could be the biggest trade in franchise history.

FTN wrote:I just feel like he's dumb enough to sit on his hands instead of making a lesser deal now. I really dont think there are many teams who have the farm system depth we do, and the eagerness to trade prospects plus take on salary. Look at the Cardinals. I think our system is much deeper, and we have three elite guys at the top, they have 1. Rangers can't afford his salary this year.

I'm really wondering whether any other team aside from maybe Boston, which has bottomless resources and a deep farm, is even truly in the mix for Halladay--and if the "in-division premium" JP would have to get from the Sox above the package he could accept from us really renders the Phils the only logical destination.

Again, if I'm Amaro, these are my three parameters:

1) Drabek is absolutely off-limits, and you can have one of Taylor or Brown but not both

2) If you want Happ in the deal, you can have any two guys other than Drabek and one of the OFs, then we get to protect a few more prospects (the three I'd try to keep at that point are Marson, Savery, and one of the Lakewood OFs), then you can pick one more

3) If you don't want Happ in the deal, you can have any four guys other than Drabek and one of the OFs

There are probably other permutations we could get into--picking up some/all of Halladay's '09 balance, including another player who could help the Phillies right now (Millar, Scutaro or Bautista, say), etc.

The reason he will be traded is because he wants it to happen. He's 32, never pitched in the playoffs and is in his prime. He is telling the Jays he wants out.

ek wrote:

philsfan1979 wrote:Roy Halladay was interviewed by Jody Mac and Harry Mayes on 950 ESPN earlier today and it sounded so promising...

...then, Randy Miller came on a bit later and said that his sources are telling him that the Phillies have no problem with Halladay's salary for 2010...it's the rest of his 2009 salary that his sources tell him the Phillies can't afford.

Now, that seems ridiculous. Jody & Harry, while respecting Randy (and his sources), are going over the numbers now and can't understand how that can be true.

that doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the Myers thing but that shouldn't proclude them from Halladay this year

And they do have a lot coming off the books next year, but
Utley makes 4M more
Howard makes 4M more
Raul makes 5M more
Hamels makes 2M more
Werth makes 5M more
Madson makes 2.5M more

There's a fair amount of guys eligible for arb, too, so I don't see why it would be easier to afford him next year as opposed to this year.

dajafi wrote:

FTN wrote:I just feel like he's dumb enough to sit on his hands instead of making a lesser deal now. I really dont think there are many teams who have the farm system depth we do, and the eagerness to trade prospects plus take on salary. Look at the Cardinals. I think our system is much deeper, and we have three elite guys at the top, they have 1. Rangers can't afford his salary this year.

I'm really wondering whether any other team aside from maybe Boston, which has bottomless resources and a deep farm, is even truly in the mix for Halladay--and if the "in-division premium" JP would have to get from the Sox above the package he could accept from us really renders the Phils the only logical destination.

Again, if I'm Amaro, these are my three parameters:

1) Drabek is absolutely off-limits, and you can have one of Taylor or Brown but not both

2) If you want Happ in the deal, you can have any two guys other than Drabek and one of the OFs, then we get to protect a few more prospects (the three I'd try to keep at that point are Marson, Savery, and one of the Lakewood OFs), then you can pick one more

3) If you don't want Happ in the deal, you can have any four guys other than Drabek and one of the OFs

There are probably other permutations we could get into--picking up some/all of Halladay's '09 balance, including another player who could help the Phillies right now (Millar, Scutaro or Bautista, say), etc.

If you pull Drabek off the table you have to give Happ, Brown, Marson,Knapp and maybe one more mid level guy.

Eaton, Jenkins and Thome are off the books next year. That's $20 to $25 million right there.

GrizzledVeteran wrote:Eaton, Jenkins and Thome are off the books next year. That's $20 to $25 million right there.

I cant believe we're still paying for Thome

All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

ek wrote:i'm sure they'll archive it on their site. a must listen

It's actually already archived. The 1:45 interview was a replay of the conversation this morning. In fact, the archived version was already up on 950espn.com when they aired the replay.

Oh, and here are the links to both the Halladay and Randy Miller interviews:

Roy Halladay

Randy Miller

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

I was just going to ask if Roy would actually limit his NTC-waiving to only the Phillies. It's kind of risky if you're him and you really want to get out of Toronto to pursue a championship. While the Phillies have a good shot at it, so too do the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. If you say, "Phillies or bust," do you really think J.P. would jump out of his shoes to appease Halladay when he can eat a few million and wait until the off-season?

CrashburnAlley wrote:

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

I was just going to ask if Roy would actually limit his NTC-waiving to only the Phillies. It's kind of risky if you're him and you really want to get out of Toronto to pursue a championship. While the Phillies have a good shot at it, so too do the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. If you say, "Phillies or bust," do you really think J.P. would jump out of his shoes to appease Halladay when he can eat a few million and wait until the off-season?

He has a NTC this winter too. And he can stick it to the Blue Jays and just say he's not waiving it all. They are trading him because they cant afford him. If they piss him off and he stays, it severely hurts their offseason planning.

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

You don't seem at all like yourself today.

Should we then lock Halladay up for 4 years at say 60 million?

TenuredVulture wrote:

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

You don't seem at all like yourself today.

Should we then lock Halladay up for 4 years at say 60 million?

Gonna take 5/85 at least.

And yes I would

FTN wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

You don't seem at all like yourself today.

Should we then lock Halladay up for 4 years at say 60 million?

Gonna take 5/85 at least.

And yes I would

But if he loves us so much, we get a nice fat discount, right?

FTN wrote:

CrashburnAlley wrote:

FTN wrote:All the Phillies players have to do is get to Halladay. Convince him how good the team is, how this is his best shot at a ring. And its as good as done. He has complete and total leverage. He can go to JP and say "I'll only waive my NTC to go to Philly"

and then what we have to give up massively shrinks. Then Drabek comes off the table.

I was just going to ask if Roy would actually limit his NTC-waiving to only the Phillies. It's kind of risky if you're him and you really want to get out of Toronto to pursue a championship. While the Phillies have a good shot at it, so too do the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. If you say, "Phillies or bust," do you really think J.P. would jump out of his shoes to appease Halladay when he can eat a few million and wait until the off-season?

He has a NTC this winter too. And he can stick it to the Blue Jays and just say he's not waiving it all. They are trading him because they cant afford him. If they piss him off and he stays, it severely hurts their offseason planning.

Are the Blue Jays all that worse off if they have to keep him? It's not like the Blue Jays need to go into rebuilding mode. They can trade Rolen either this season, in the off-season, or during the 2010 season and recoup some or all of the $15 million or so he's owed between now and the end of '10.

Don't think they'll find a sucker for Vernon Wells.

They could trade Lyle Overbay, who makes $7M next year. Alex Rios, despite his struggles, is still attractive.

You get my point. There are a lot of ways the Jays can afford to pay Roy Halladay next season and they're all actually more attractive options if you ask me. And I don't think Roy is the type of guy who will stick it to the Jays just to make a point.

They do need to rebuild.

Halladay also said, on the ballpark

"as long as both teams are still gonna play at the same field, it doesnt matter to me"

A pitcher with a brain!

ek wrote:i can see werth having alterior motives in those quotes, considering the trade could conceivable clean out all the guys who are going to try and take his job

You should change your name to "ihatewerth"

@ihatewertheveryoneishurt