60 Games To Leave Your Bubble: Phillies Thread

by **Stay_Disappointed** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:31:43

CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

by **Napalm** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:44:20

Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

Our asses

by **PSUsarge** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:50:13

Squire wrote:BA Mid-Season Farm System Rankings - Phillies 26th out of 30. Wow.

CFP wrote:Thankfully all the young outstanding talent like Hoskins and Kingery is already in the majors

Timely piece on this by Kevin Cooney

After Tuesday night, Hoskins has no homers and one RBI through 12 games along with an under .200 average. The problem is that it isn’t just 12 games. Yes, the sample size for this year is ridiculously small. No, it’s the fact that Hoskins’ numbers after the All-Star Break last year until the end of the season were 71 games, a .180 average with a .318 on-base percentage, a.671 OPS, nine homers, 26 RBI, 48 walks and 79 strikeouts.

Just for comparison: Tommy Joseph’s last half-season in Philadelphia back in 2017: .252 average in 60 games with seven homers, 26 RBIs, .252 on-base percentage with a. .635 OPS.

They have inherited the worst trait of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Klentak’s former employer, from the past decade. Oh sure, they have a few shiny fancy things that distract from the fact that they are the ultimate definition of mediocre. Until this organization ends up producing consistent major league quality players from its own ranks, it is doomed to failure.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/phillies-ma ... s-nl-east/

by **phillychuck** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:53:17

Hoskins is in what might be a career-threatening slump. Thankfully, he still doesn't swing out of the zone very much which gives him a respectable OBP. Comparing him to Tommy Joseph isn't really apt, though. He needs to adjust, which is probably hard during this bizarre season. Spring training could have been really good for that...

by **ek20** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:59:41

Scathing yet accurate article

by **Slowhand** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:07:30

One would think that someone with such a good command of the strike zone has a better chance than most of getting something to click and turning it around, but it's pretty worrisome at this point. I know I've harped on this before, but he is such a severe pull hitter and that's being exploited now. His swing in general just looks really long to me.

by **WhiteyFan** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:10:04

Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

If we do sign Realmuto, who is our #4 SP, #5 SP and bullpen? We really only have 1-2 bullets left in the chamber. Gonna be holes on this team no matter what unfortunately.

by **Stripes** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:15:46

WhiteyFan wrote:
Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

If we do sign Realmuto, who is our #4 SP, #5 SP and bullpen? We really only have 1-2 bullets left in the chamber. Gonna be holes on this team no matter what unfortunately.

And with what we're paying Wheeler, how much is Nola gonna command when he hits FA?

by **azrider** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:25:49

Slowhand wrote:One would think that someone with such a good command of the strike zone has a better chance than most of getting something to click and turning it around, but it's pretty worrisome at this point. I know I've harped on this before, but he is such a severe pull hitter and that's being exploited now. His swing in general just looks really long to me.

yep, swing wasn't always that long. i like players to have information and be conscious of things like loft, exit velocity, slugging pct and so on... but like anything in life, too much can be a bad thing. i know he's a student of that, but i really think he's got to get back to the basics a bit. use those tools to tweak the skills you have, don't make them the primary goal.

by **heyeaglefn** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:27:25

Stripes wrote:
WhiteyFan wrote:
Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

If we do sign Realmuto, who is our #4 SP, #5 SP and bullpen? We really only have 1-2 bullets left in the chamber. Gonna be holes on this team no matter what unfortunately.

And with what we're paying Wheeler, how much is Nola gonna command when he hits FA?

Isn't that a 2024 problem?

by **CFP** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:30:37

heyeaglefn wrote:
Stripes wrote:
WhiteyFan wrote:
Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

If we do sign Realmuto, who is our #4 SP, #5 SP and bullpen? We really only have 1-2 bullets left in the chamber. Gonna be holes on this team no matter what unfortunately.

And with what we're paying Wheeler, how much is Nola gonna command when he hits FA?

Isn't that a 2024 problem?

Yeah, Nola is locked up through 2023. If this team is still looking like this exactly three years from now (well, maybe by 7/31/23), Nola will be gone and they'll try to get a haul like they did for Cole.

by **MoBettle** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:45:15

Squire wrote:
MoBettle wrote:Signing Gosselin and him getting hot for a few weeks might honestly be a top 5-10 move of his tenure. It's one of only a few good trades or signings that wasn't just outbidding other teams for an established MLB player.

Jay Bruce acquisition looking pretty good. But his victories are few and far between.

Sure although Bruce hit 300 home runs and made 3 all star teams already. Like good for Klentak to find the trade, but it sort of goes back to the point that for all the value at the margins he was supposed to find almost all of the good players he's brought in are all guys that any casual fan would say is good. Like Wheeler is a little different but the other 3 higher paid free agents were 2 former MVPs and a Cy Young. They made big deals about how many former all stars they brought in last year.

As Cooney said in that article it's very similar to the issues the Angels have had.

by **Phred** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:57:00

WhiteyFan wrote:
Stay_Disappointed wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:Time to move on from Klentak. I’ve been more patient than others over the past few few years, but other than Harper (which seems like it was more Middleton and money than any actual GMing) what good moves has he made? Didi looks good so far, but it’s a SSS and he’s only on a 1 year deal

Truly. Farm system is #$!&@.

If we don't resign Realmuto who is our starting catcher in 2021?

If we do sign Realmuto, who is our #4 SP, #5 SP and bullpen? We really only have 1-2 bullets left in the chamber. Gonna be holes on this team no matter what unfortunately.

Nola, Howard, Wheeler, VV and Pivetta of course

by **Bill McNeal** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:00:51

https://twitter.com/repbrendanboyle/sta ... 84708?s=21

I’m introducing legislation in Congress to outlaw the @Phillies bullpen.

by **ek20** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:02:09

Its a conundrum. First of all, its at a premium position IMO. Not many teams have a catcher like him. Also you lose him, its gonna upset your franchise player. While he will get over it I'm sure, its not good optics. But that money can also be used for upgrading other more important areas. But you are asking klentak to do that

by **ReadingPhilly** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:04:38

eflin is fine in the rotation. i'm not too concerned about having a great #5.

i certainly understand shore's position on realmuto but he feels like a must sign for a few reasons. hopefully it's only for five years. i don't read too much into the "they missed their chance to sign and now he's going to be expensive" takes. he's always been adamant about setting the market for a catcher so it doesn't really matter if they did it two months ago, now or in the offseason.

by **rolex** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:29:07

J T is a heck of an athlete. Catchers with his physical skills are rare. There is nothing that indicates that he can’t handle six more years behind the plate. Middleton just needs to sit down and pay the man. He’s tight with Harper. If Realmuto leaves, rest assured that Harper will be telling Middleton that he wants out as well. With the way that this club is performing, signing JT would take some of the sting out of a season that is looking to be historically bad.

by **MoBettle** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:33:51

ReadingPhilly wrote:eflin is fine in the rotation. i'm not too concerned about having a great #5.

i certainly understand shore's position on realmuto but he feels like a must sign for a few reasons. hopefully it's only for five years. i don't read too much into the "they missed their chance to sign and now he's going to be expensive" takes. he's always been adamant about setting the market for a catcher so it doesn't really matter if they did it two months ago, now or in the offseason.

I think he was adamant about setting the market for arbitration when the alternative was a one year deal, a longer term deal might have been a different story. But they didn't want to do that because they were out of money under the tax.

It should have been done when they traded for him last year, or at least shortly after they signed Bryce.

It's not just getting him to sign for less money, it's driving down the AAV which is what matters for the luxury tax, even if he signs for the same amount over 5 years that he would have gotten over the last 5 years of a 7 year extension he signed two years ago, the AAV for the life of the extension (including the last few years when he could break down) would have been lower because this year and last year would have been factored into the average.

In other words, even if you want to say they have to sign him at this point, they still did a bad job handling it from a team building perspective.

by **ReadingPhilly** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:33:54

they look like a .500 team. that'd be like the 10th best season in franchise history.

by **WhiteyFan** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 13:34:37

ek20 wrote:Its a conundrum. First of all, its at a premium position IMO. Not many teams have a catcher like him. Also you lose him, its gonna upset your franchise player. While he will get over it I'm sure, its not good optics. But that money can also be used for upgrading other more important areas. But you are asking klentak to do that

It's also a very injury-prone position and JTR will be on the wrong side of 30. Very real chance his decline begins as soon as we sign him. At the very least, it's pretty unrealistic to expect this type of production throughout the length of the contract.

It's also a position many (or at least some) believe will be de-valued as soon as robo-umps are instituted for balls and strikes.

I believe signing him would be very good short term and very bad long term, but I can see an argument both ways.

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