btw where did Duane Kiper finish in your search?

Uncle Milty wrote:btw where did Duane Kiper finish in your search?

Kuiper?

him too

Uncle Milty wrote:btw where did Duane Kiper finish in your search?

This article on sabr.org is really old as it references Kuiper as a current player, but still an interesting read on the subject. At the time it was written, for those with over 2500 at bats it looks like he would be THE worst unless you disregard the inside the park home runs of Tavares and Thevenow. I didn’t really dig too deeply to see if any of the other guys on the list had inside the park home runs or not. Some other interesting stuff on there for the non home run hitters.

Slowhand wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:btw where did Duane Kiper finish in your search?

This article on sabr.org is really old as it references Kuiper as a current player, but still an interesting read on the subject. At the time it was written, for those with over 2500 at bats it looks like he would be THE worst unless you disregard the inside the park home runs of Tavares and Thevenow. I didn’t really dig too deeply to see if any of the other guys on the list had inside the park home runs or not. Some other interesting stuff on there for the non home run hitters.

I'm sure most on here are familiar with Kuiper's 1983 baseball card, but for those who aren't:

THAT'S NOT A BASEBALL CARD THAT'S A FLEER


actually that's pretty cool!

I really hope a silver lining of this whole mess is that baseball can regain national popularity again.

If they can pull this thing off and play any version of a season this year, I would think as many games as possible will be on national broadcasts (or at least have local broadcasts syndicated nationally) and that ratings will be through the roof.

I know that eventually the return of the other leagues will bring pent up excitement and demand as well, but maybe this "head start" will allow baseball to showcase its stars nationally with literally no other competition and recapture some hearts and minds in the process.

Rockinghorse wrote:Wonder why everyone is hellbent on spring training sites. The heat in Arizona (plus dust storms!) and the heat/rain/lightning in Florida would cancel tons of games. Play in your home facility where you can pay your home employees!

Play early in Florida, before the afternoon thunderstorms hit in the afternoon.

PSUsarge wrote:I really hope a silver lining of this whole mess is that baseball can regain national popularity again.

If they can pull this thing off and play any version of a season this year, I would think as many games as possible will be on national broadcasts (or at least have local broadcasts syndicated nationally) and that ratings will be through the roof.

I know that eventually the return of the other leagues will bring pent up excitement and demand as well, but maybe this "head start" will allow baseball to showcase its stars nationally with literally no other competition and recapture some hearts and minds in the process.

Is baseball's popularity really that down?

Per game attendance peaked in 2007 at 32,696. Last year that was down to 28,198 but even that eclipses the pre-1994 attendance.

World Series ratings are down but right in line with average viewership of the NBA finals.

Uncle Milty wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:I really hope a silver lining of this whole mess is that baseball can regain national popularity again.

If they can pull this thing off and play any version of a season this year, I would think as many games as possible will be on national broadcasts (or at least have local broadcasts syndicated nationally) and that ratings will be through the roof.

I know that eventually the return of the other leagues will bring pent up excitement and demand as well, but maybe this "head start" will allow baseball to showcase its stars nationally with literally no other competition and recapture some hearts and minds in the process.

Is baseball's popularity really that down?

Per game attendance peaked in 2007 at 32,696. Last year that was down to 28,198 but even that eclipses the pre-1994 attendance.

World Series ratings are down but right in line with average viewership of the NBA finals.

Regionally, baseball is doing great, of course. I am referring specifically to national popularity, and more specifically among the younger demographic - where the NBA specifically is kicking their butts despite the comparable WS vs. NBA Finals ratings.

It's been well-documented how MLB has failed to promote its stars over the past 15-20 years. For example, only one baseball player appeared on ESPN's World Fame 100 last year, which ranks "Top stars -- and their most Googled moments of the year" - and it was Bryce Harper at #99 - http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/ ... e-100-2019

I think this could be the chance for baseball to reclaim some of that national (or even global) spotlight by being (literally) the only game in town for a while.

ESPN, national sports radio, national podcasts, etc. should all be more MLB-heavy than they've been (about on-field activities) since...what, Barry Bonds, 13+ years ago? ESPN and/or FOX and/or TBS should have a national game on nearly every night, with probably several on Saturdays and Sundays.

Add into this that people will have more time on their hands than ever before to actually watch (no travel, no youth sports, etc.), and a desire to get outdoors in any form necessary (where baseball translates well on the radio), plus a strong pull towards any form of live sports, and I think you have a very unique opportunity for baseball right now.

id have to imagine the nba and nhl come back at a similar time as Mlb?

MoBettle wrote:id have to imagine the nba and nhl come back at a similar time as Mlb?

Idk, depends on a lot of factors. Much, much more physical contact in those sports (and in football) and the longer they wait, the longer it makes more sense for them to just call the season and restart in October as normal (IMO).

Baseball is the "safest" of the four to restart and is in the perfect position to do so, with the actual season not having started yet.

I think what you'd like to happen would be great. I guess I just don't see the rest.

The ESPN link doesn't really say anything to me. Both in how they arrive at the ranking and that it's a world ranking. Daseball is very much an American pastime.

There were articles all over this season about NBA viewership tanking. NBA national viewership average is right in line with MLB national telecasts. MLB dominates in regional broadcasts.

From a participation point no other sport matches the bat and ball of baseball/softball.

Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, etc. will never match the start power of LeBron or Tom Brady, etc. because they can't individually influence games in the same way.

I think I've mentioned this before but I think baseball IS an "old" people's sport. While working and raising a family it's difficult to devote 3 hours every night to watch baseball. Many people come back to it when the nest is empty or they retire. There's also the change in the entertainment people are attracted to as they age.

I guess it comes down to me being more confident in the nba’s willingness to take out of the box chances to make money than mlb’s. Maybe this is what causes Mlb to get with the times though.

Also the nba and nhl guys just need like a week of practice to get up to speed whereas the hitters need more than that to get their timing and the pitchers need more than that to get stretched out.

PSUsarge wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:I really hope a silver lining of this whole mess is that baseball can regain national popularity again.

If they can pull this thing off and play any version of a season this year, I would think as many games as possible will be on national broadcasts (or at least have local broadcasts syndicated nationally) and that ratings will be through the roof.

I know that eventually the return of the other leagues will bring pent up excitement and demand as well, but maybe this "head start" will allow baseball to showcase its stars nationally with literally no other competition and recapture some hearts and minds in the process.

Is baseball's popularity really that down?

Per game attendance peaked in 2007 at 32,696. Last year that was down to 28,198 but even that eclipses the pre-1994 attendance.

World Series ratings are down but right in line with average viewership of the NBA finals.

Regionally, baseball is doing great, of course. I am referring specifically to national popularity, and more specifically among the younger demographic - where the NBA specifically is kicking their butts despite the comparable WS vs. NBA Finals ratings.

It's been well-documented how MLB has failed to promote its stars over the past 15-20 years. For example, only one baseball player appeared on ESPN's World Fame 100 last year, which ranks "Top stars -- and their most Googled moments of the year" - and it was Bryce Harper at #99 - http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/ ... e-100-2019

I think this could be the chance for baseball to reclaim some of that national (or even global) spotlight by being (literally) the only game in town for a while.

ESPN, national sports radio, national podcasts, etc. should all be more MLB-heavy than they've been (about on-field activities) since...what, Barry Bonds, 13+ years ago? ESPN and/or FOX and/or TBS should have a national game on nearly every night, with probably several on Saturdays and Sundays.

Add into this that people will have more time on their hands than ever before to actually watch (no travel, no youth sports, etc.), and a desire to get outdoors in any form necessary (where baseball translates well on the radio), plus a strong pull towards any form of live sports, and I think you have a very unique opportunity for baseball right now.

In terms of popularity, reports of baseball's death have certainly been grossly exaggerated. It definitely lacks a coolness factor right now. Sadly, I think the growing near universality of betting might be the only thing that maybe invites a new demographic.

PSUsarge wrote:I really hope a silver lining of this whole mess is that baseball can regain national popularity again.

If they can pull this thing off and play any version of a season this year, I would think as many games as possible will be on national broadcasts (or at least have local broadcasts syndicated nationally) and that ratings will be through the roof.

I know that eventually the return of the other leagues will bring pent up excitement and demand as well, but maybe this "head start" will allow baseball to showcase its stars nationally with literally no other competition and recapture some hearts and minds in the process.

I believe that this is why they have such a hard-on to be the first back. Unfortunately, the NBA(and NHL) will probably go directly into their playoffs, if/when they return, stealing the spotlight back.

The important thing, of course, is being able to resume SAFELY. One player testing positive, a la Rudy Gobert, and we're right back to square one.

Uncle Milty wrote:I think what you'd like to happen would be great. I guess I just don't see the rest.

The ESPN link doesn't really say anything to me. Both in how they arrive at the ranking and that it's a world ranking. Daseball is very much an American pastime.

I agree that it's one of many imperfect measures of this concept, but Brady, OBJ, Kaepernick, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Wentz, and Gronk are all ahead of Harper in a sport literally called AMERICAN football, which supports my point that baseball does not have a place among the stars nationally or globally.

Uncle Milty wrote:There were articles all over this season about NBA viewership tanking. NBA national viewership average is right in line with MLB national telecasts. MLB dominates in regional broadcasts.

NBA viewership tanked this season because LeBron and Kawhi moved West and KD, Kyrie, Zion, Steph, and Klay were hurt for a significant portion of the season. But again, I am more referring to star power in the younger demographic, where I feel baseball once had a much, much stronger presence in past decades. The "coolness factor" as Swish puts it above.

Uncle Milty wrote:From a participation point no other sport matches the bat and ball of baseball/softball.

No arguments here, and I hope that continues...but isn't really relevant to my point. Soccer has fantastic youth participation but MLS ratings / stars are way behind any of the other leagues.

Uncle Milty wrote:Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, etc. will never match the start power of LeBron or Tom Brady, etc. because they can't individually influence games in the same way.

The latter point has always been true, though - so why did baseball and its stars have a (much) greater national presence in decades past?

Uncle Milty wrote:I think I've mentioned this before but I think baseball IS an "old" people's sport. While working and raising a family it's difficult to devote 3 hours every night to watch baseball. Many people come back to it when the nest is empty or they retire. There's also the change in the entertainment people are attracted to as they age.

This is exactly the point I'm making, though. Many will not be commuting for a while going forward. Youth extracurriculars will likely either not happen at all or will at least be limited / modified this summer. Nobody will be traveling, for work or pleasure. People finally will have the time to fall (back) in love with baseball - especially when they're desperately craving any sort of distraction, in particular live sports.

Could just be wishful thinking, but growing up in the 90s, Ken Griffey Jr, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Randy Johnson, Derek Jeter, Frank Thomas, etc. were all just as big as any of the biggest stars in sports, regardless of where you lived. I can't imagine many kids / young adults today would rank an out-of-town baseball player among superstars that immediately come to mind.

The charts Milty cited there are interesting. I think it does sort of illustrate that baseball is struggling a little bit in the last five years or so. 3 of the last 5 years NBA is cracking 20 million, 3 of the last 5 baseball is not, and not coming close. Also it does seem like NBA has sort of remained steady while baseball is struggling, at least in this admittedly somewhat narrow metric of only looking at the championship series for the sport itself.

I think part of the NBA "popularity", in terms of beating out MLB here in the last decade or so now in the Finals vs. World Series matchup would maybe be the villain aspect. A lot of repeat guys there in Curry, LeBron, etc. that you're seeing over and over again. Seems like baseball has had a ton of fluctuation in teams making it to the Series. We've been everywhere from Phillies-Rays to the Yankees being around the next year to the Royals and Mets and Cardinals and Dodgers and Red Sox and Cubs and Indians and Astros and so on. No dynasties there really, whereas you're seeing some of those same figures in the NBA.

On this day in 1965, the Astrodome hosted its first official mlb game vs. the Phillies. chris Short pitched a shutout as the Phils won 2-0 and Tony Taylor notched the first hit and Dick Allen the first homer.

That first scoreboard was quite the "mechanical marvel" :

I marveled