Paul Ryan is a very conservative legislator. I would think the voters in his district that have voted for him for years would know this.

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:And there are probably local offices that could be targeted by a third party, but I still think the more effective strategy would be through the Democratic party. That's how the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republican Party far to the right--if nothing else, the Tea Party showed how tenuous the establishment's grip on the party apparatus really is.

I was thinking about this last night. There's a certain segment of Bernie voters that offer the same poor critical thinking skills as most Trump supporters. how do you bring them into the party but ensure the Dems don't nominate Alan Grayson or Michael Moore in 4 years?

It's a much smaller proportion of the Dem electorate.

Christie is going to appear in court the Wednesday before thanksgiving. Should be wild.

the first two items Clinton wants to tackle when president: 1. infrastructure bill 2. immigration reform

then it's citizens united, family leave, childcare, using the executive for environmental policies.

TenuredVulture wrote:

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:And there are probably local offices that could be targeted by a third party, but I still think the more effective strategy would be through the Democratic party. That's how the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republican Party far to the right--if nothing else, the Tea Party showed how tenuous the establishment's grip on the party apparatus really is.

I was thinking about this last night. There's a certain segment of Bernie voters that offer the same poor critical thinking skills as most Trump supporters. how do you bring them into the party but ensure the Dems don't nominate Alan Grayson or Michael Moore in 4 years?

It's a much smaller proportion of the Dem electorate.

I'm not sure that's always going to be the case, though. Over 50% of Americans now believe 911 could have been an inside job, for example. I'm not sure this sort of delusional mindset is the exclusive domain of the GOP.

Youseff wrote:they didn't directly impact any legislation but protest is a demonstrably viable way of influencing public opinion and the zeitgeist. I think you could argue Bernie was given a larger platform because those Zuccotti park kids built part of that stage.

Yep. I'm thinking TV's using "stupid waste" to exaggerate for effect. IWW didn't amount to shit, cents-per-hour-pay-increases-wise, but they had Joe Hill

drsmooth wrote:

Youseff wrote:they didn't directly impact any legislation but protest is a demonstrably viable way of influencing public opinion and the zeitgeist. I think you could argue Bernie was given a larger platform because those Zuccotti park kids built part of that stage.

Yep. I'm thinking TV's using "stupid waste" to exaggerate for effect. IWW didn't amount to shit, cents-per-hour-pay-increases-wise, but they had Joe Hill

Activists need to be active--there was never a strategy for building on the momentum of the events. Bernie may have been a product of the protests, and maybe Elizabeth Warren too, but if we look at the Tea Party, it's not just Ted Cruz, but dozens of state legislative races and more than a handful of Senate and House seats. That's the work that needs to be done, and without it, a bunch of smelly hippies banging on drums is just a bunch of hippies.

TenuredVulture wrote:That's the work that needs to be done, and without it, a bunch of smelly hippies banging on drums is just a bunch of hippies.

so despite the examples you've cited yourself there's absolutely no credit to be accorded cultural influence in political activism

I see

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:And there are probably local offices that could be targeted by a third party, but I still think the more effective strategy would be through the Democratic party. That's how the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republican Party far to the right--if nothing else, the Tea Party showed how tenuous the establishment's grip on the party apparatus really is.

I was thinking about this last night. There's a certain segment of Bernie voters that offer the same poor critical thinking skills as most Trump supporters. how do you bring them into the party but ensure the Dems don't nominate Alan Grayson or Michael Moore in 4 years?

It's a much smaller proportion of the Dem electorate.

I'm not sure that's always going to be the case, though. Over 50% of Americans now believe 911 could have been an inside job, for example. I'm not sure this sort of delusional mindset is the exclusive domain of the GOP.

Easy. Superdelegates will still hold a ton of sway in the Democratic Party. Even if they adopt the recommended changes requiring most supers to become pledged (this doesn't have to happen BTW), as I pointed out months ago, if the DNC anticipates potential grassroots movements, it can stack the pledged superdelegates in states that are less susceptible to such movements. Plus there will still be a substantial amount of elected officials acting as unpledged superdelegates, who would (hopefully) act as bulwarks against this type of radical, unqualified candidate.

I firmly believe that a party does NOT have to abide by the will of the voters if party officials strongly believe that the candidate constitutes a suicide pact for the party, as we have here. It's a private entity for crying out loud. On the flip side, when you have what is essentially a codified two-party system, it's hard to argue that point and not want to punch yourself in the face.

I'm not familiar with the differences between the super delegate system the dems have vs the ones the gop has. are you saying the one the dems have is structurally so different from the GOP that they can prevent a candidate who won most state contests from winning the nomination?

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:And there are probably local offices that could be targeted by a third party, but I still think the more effective strategy would be through the Democratic party. That's how the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republican Party far to the right--if nothing else, the Tea Party showed how tenuous the establishment's grip on the party apparatus really is.

I was thinking about this last night. There's a certain segment of Bernie voters that offer the same poor critical thinking skills as most Trump supporters. how do you bring them into the party but ensure the Dems don't nominate Alan Grayson or Michael Moore in 4 years?

It's a much smaller proportion of the Dem electorate.

I'm not sure that's always going to be the case, though. Over 50% of Americans now believe 911 could have been an inside job, for example. I'm not sure this sort of delusional mindset is the exclusive domain of the GOP.

The Bernie movement was pretty heavily white males. That's not really the direction the democrats are heading. They're also super young who knows how they will evolve.

There's plenty of opportunity for delusion in the Democratic Party, not sure if this one in particular has a lot of staying power though.

pacino wrote:the first two items Clinton wants to tackle when president: 1. infrastructure bill 2. immigration reform

then it's citizens united, family leave, childcare, using the executive for environmental policies.

Sounds like stuff everyone can get behind. I guess she'll take everyone's guns and teveal her true satanic nature afterwards

MoBettle wrote:

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Youseff wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:And there are probably local offices that could be targeted by a third party, but I still think the more effective strategy would be through the Democratic party. That's how the Tea Party succeeded in moving the Republican Party far to the right--if nothing else, the Tea Party showed how tenuous the establishment's grip on the party apparatus really is.

I was thinking about this last night. There's a certain segment of Bernie voters that offer the same poor critical thinking skills as most Trump supporters. how do you bring them into the party but ensure the Dems don't nominate Alan Grayson or Michael Moore in 4 years?

It's a much smaller proportion of the Dem electorate.

I'm not sure that's always going to be the case, though. Over 50% of Americans now believe 911 could have been an inside job, for example. I'm not sure this sort of delusional mindset is the exclusive domain of the GOP.

The Bernie movement was pretty heavily white males. That's not really the direction the democrats are heading. They're also super young who knows how they will evolve.

There's plenty of opportunity for delusion in the Democratic Party, not sure if this one in particular has a lot of staying power though.

agree on all that. I don't think it will necessarily be a Bernie driven schism, but I'm very conscious of how the loons took over the GOP and probably wont be relinquishing power for decades, and I want to make sure my backyard isn't a huge mess either.

I suspect it was posted here, but I read an article about Gary Johnson and his questionable governing style. Basically, he never cared to know the details of the laws that were being passed, and his lack of curiosity and ignorance is what characterized his governing. And that's the view of the Republicans he worked with while he was in office.

Did someone post this here? I'm having trouble finding the article in my browsing history or with google, but I want to send it to some PA protest voters who think they are being principled conservatives by voting Johnson.

Well you don't have to know many details if your position is to literally try and veto everything. So it's a nice setup for the intellectually lazy and incurious

Heck, Libertarians don't even need a governor.

Insert Ron Swanson meme here

I spent 20 minutes looking for that piece and couldn't find it. They're bad at tags.

looking forward to hearing more about Trump's policies

Hillary for prison!
Benghazi!
Bill's secret fake child!
Look at Obama's KENYA half brother!
MAGA!!!!