Paris attacks

Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Thu Nov 19, 2015 15:31:47

pacino wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:Mike McCaul (R-TX) allowing as to how his bill is measured & well-balanced, despite being basically written on a napkin a day or so ago and not subject to any kind of discussion, input from security authorities, etc.

Are there any adults in Texas, at all?

47 House Democrats join a veto proof majority in passage

are YOU for it? Or did you come in for political points?

I love that you all do nothing but snipe at Republicans, and then I post something, and my motives become very important. Imagine if I asked if someone posted something for political points every time something about Republicans was said?

doc posted about a bill being written on a napkin and there being no adults in Texas, then a sizable chunk of the House Dem caucus votes for the bill an hour later in the face of a veto threat. I'm sorry that I posted about that happening. Because no one else tries to score political points or makes snide comments. Just me.

I think it sounds perfectly reasonable from the Politico summary - "The Republican legislation, the American Security Against Foreign Enemies Act, would require the FBI, Homeland Security Department and director of national intelligence to certify to Congress that any refugee from Syria or Iraq is "not a threat to the security of the United States" before being allowed to settle in the United States."

The DNI and FBI director have both suggested there are serious challenges in the screening process. The CIA chief wants to strengthen refugee screening. If top members of the Obama administration are talking like this, it's not exactly the fringiest thing in the world. A pause at the very least in the wake of the Paris attacks to evaluate how they were able to get back and forth from Syria, and look at ways to prevent the same thing happening here seems prudent.

I'm fine with some small number coming over eventually, but we've only taken 2,100 people and are talking about maybe 10,000 more when there are 4.5 million refugees. I wouldn't want to dramatically increase our share because I think even if it does nothing in a short term threat, there are medium/long term radicalization concerns that seem to be exacerbated by concentrated areas of refugees as Minnesota has shown with their Somali refugee population and ISIS. Europeans by and large have been significantly worse than us at integrating their Muslim populations, so them taking huge numbers seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me. The squabble, on our end anyhow, is over a tiny sliver of the problem. I thought this piece from Reihan Salam was pretty good on something we should look at with helping the refugees in larger numbers, more efficiently, and without the downside risk.

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby pacino » Thu Nov 19, 2015 16:13:14

I've posted an incredible amount of stuff that is not 'snipe at Republicans'. I've been pretty consistent with thinking the current drone/bombing campaign is pretty faulty. I'm not a fan of a lot of Democrats. I'm not even a huge fan of HRC's foreign policy, though it's much better than the alternative. You and Salam want 'economic opportunity closer to home' and see this through the creation of special economic freedom zones in Jordan, Turkey, etc. Where was this plan in the decades prior? Why did we keep accepting refugees from all these other places for years? People already believe we give too much aid to foreigners, why give aid to these future terrorists? What does 'incentivizing' comanies to come to these zones even mean? They mentioned previous times where nations funded these types of programs, to much success. We also simultaneously accepted refugees and immigrants from these same areas.

We've been able to integrate refugees for generations, even Muslim ones, an extremely impoverished couple dozen of people in Minneapolis notwithstanding. We know who they are, we can track them. We largely don't let refugees languish once they arrive here. I've met a bunch! Bringing up the state of camps in Lebanon, Turkey, Myanmar, etc is not apt for how the refugees would live once they arrive here after being in stasis.

And yes, 10,000 is a drop in the bucket. That's exactly why the outrage against it is so ridiculous. Of course you strengthen screening; but you make it more efficient at the same time. That takes money and funding bureacracy, though. This bill wants to add bureacracy without any outline as to how it happens or what is t take place. It's a 4 page bill cooked up in a few days. It also only affects those from Iraq and Syria. Why not Nigeria, where there is actually the largest support for ISIS? Votes like these are political and toothless because they seek to send a political point, not a policy one. I have links too. Paul Ryan stated that time is not an issue; that would mean we can put together a much better bill if you really need one.

Sign off on each individual refugee? Why? You sign off on a program's implementation.

I also don't agree with James Brennan on much of anything, so I'm not sure why you think that would sway me. The CFR isn't the only school of international thought, either.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby The Crimson Cyclone » Thu Nov 19, 2015 16:53:59

Monkeyboy wrote:what's a Texas democrat?



Ann Richards
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby drsmooth » Thu Nov 19, 2015 17:13:33

jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:Mike McCaul (R-TX) allowing as to how his bill is measured & well-balanced, despite being basically written on a napkin a day or so ago and not subject to any kind of discussion, input from security authorities, etc.

Are there any adults in Texas, at all?

47 House Democrats join a veto proof majority in passage


I was talking about McCaul. He's a Texas congressperson. From Texas.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby drsmooth » Thu Nov 19, 2015 17:33:11

jerseyhoya wrote: A pause at the very least in the wake of the Paris attacks to evaluate how they were able to get back and forth from Syria, and look at ways to prevent the same thing happening here seems prudent.

I'm fine with some small number coming over eventually, but we've only taken 2,100 people and are talking about maybe 10,000 more when there are 4.5 million refugees.


"And". you mean "and".

The facts you yourself provide attest to the idiocy of McCaul's "legislation".

I was going to write up the whys, but Dana Milbank does it better than I would, with fewer swears.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Monkeyboy » Thu Nov 19, 2015 21:35:44

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:what's a Texas democrat?



Ann Richards


I thought she was dead.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Roger Dorn » Thu Nov 19, 2015 22:24:25

@eliselabottcnn: House passes bill that could limit Syrian refugees. Statue of Liberty bows head in anguish @CNNPolitics

CNN suspended Elise for 2 weeks over this tweet. Wtf
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby The Savior » Thu Nov 19, 2015 22:26:00

Soren wrote:A SOCIALIST wants to tighten EXECUTIVE GRIP ON SOCIAL LIBERTIES?


A political leader taking action instead of standing behind rhetoric. Sign me up for that.
On a scale of 1 to Chris Brown, how pissed is he?

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby The Crimson Cyclone » Thu Nov 19, 2015 22:31:45

Monkeyboy wrote:
The Crimson Cyclone wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:what's a Texas democrat?



Ann Richards


I thought she was dead.


She lives on in her daughter as the head of Planned Parenthood
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby SK790 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 23:13:49

Roger Dorn wrote:@eliselabottcnn: House passes bill that could limit Syrian refugees. Statue of Liberty bows head in anguish @CNNPolitics

CNN suspended Elise for 2 weeks over this tweet. Wtf

stupid, biased liberal media.
I like teh waether

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby swishnicholson » Thu Nov 19, 2015 23:22:20

Roger Dorn wrote:@eliselabottcnn: House passes bill that could limit Syrian refugees. Statue of Liberty bows head in anguish @CNNPolitics

CNN suspended Elise for 2 weeks over this tweet. Wtf


Can't help but think of The Onion's Statue of Liberty caartoons.

Two weeks seems harsh. a suspension, not so much.

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby pacino » Thu Nov 19, 2015 23:51:06

The Savior wrote:
Soren wrote:A SOCIALIST wants to tighten EXECUTIVE GRIP ON SOCIAL LIBERTIES?


A political leader taking action instead of standing behind rhetoric. Sign me up for that.

He is literally trampling freedoms. If Obama did this it'd be an uprising.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Roger Dorn » Fri Nov 20, 2015 09:47:49

Agreed pac, complete overreaction by Hollande.
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby pacino » Fri Nov 20, 2015 09:49:43

Chris Christie doesn't understandthat most of the attackers were from Europe.
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Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:58:22

at least 20 dead after a gunman stormed a luxury hotel in Mali

doesn't sound like the isis MO but I guess I'll put this here for now

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby The Dude » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:59:45

All the attackers are still in the hotel, apparently, all the hostages out
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:37:07

now hearing an al-queda affiliated group and not ISIS

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Slowhand » Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:42:46

Bucky wrote:now hearing an al-queda affiliated group and not ISIS


That's a relief
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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:45:46

yep, al-queda is all about dem eggs

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Re: Paris attacks

Unread postby The Dude » Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:46:13

al-quaeda is isis's JV team
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