"Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu May 07, 2015 21:58:17

I can't quite figure it out, but it appears the United Kingdom is less united.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 07, 2015 22:07:30

Cameron might be able to eek out a majority. Miles to go with results to come in, but going to be a huge inquest into wtf went on with the polls.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu May 07, 2015 22:23:15

SO keeping Scotland in the UK didn't help Labour.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu May 07, 2015 22:29:53

These results are disappointing, to say the least.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu May 07, 2015 22:36:30

I guess the other story is UKIP is getting wiped out, which benefits the Tories?
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 07, 2015 23:01:00

TenuredVulture wrote:I guess the other story is UKIP is getting wiped out, which benefits the Tories?

Seems like they're doing about as well as they were expected. Should end up in low double digits.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby swishnicholson » Thu May 07, 2015 23:15:45

Nate Silver musing on the state of the polling industry, in light of the UK results:


It’s becoming increasingly clear that pre-election polls underestimated how well Conservatives would do and overestimated Labour’s result. The BBC’s exit poll was one early sign. But we’re now seeing Conservatives outperform their poll-based projections as actual votes are reported from constituencies across the country. As of nearly 3 a.m. London time, our live forecast has the Tories expected to win 298 seats to Labour’s 249 — a fair bit wider than their 278-267 advantage in our pre-election forecast.
But if the polls have a poor election, it won’t be the first time. In fact, it’s become harder to find an election in which the polls did all that well.

Consider what are probably the four highest-profile elections of the past year, at least from the standpoint of the U.S. and U.K. media:

The final polls showed a close result in the Scottish independence referendum, with the “no” side projected to win by just 2 to 3 percentage points. In fact, “no” won by almost 11 percentage points.
Although polls correctly implied that Republicans were favored to win the Senate in the 2014 U.S. midterms, they nevertheless significantly underestimated the GOP’s performance. Republicans’ margins over Democrats were about 4 points better than the polls in the average Senate race.
Pre-election polls badly underestimated Likud’s performance in the Israeli legislative elections earlier this year, projecting the party to about 22 seats in the Knesset when it in fact won 30. (Exit polls on election night weren’t very good either.)
At least the polls got the 2012 U.S. presidential election right? Well, sort of. They correctly predicted President Obama to be re-elected. But Obama beat the final polling averages by about 3 points nationwide. Had the error run in the other direction, Mitt Romney would have won the popular vote and perhaps the Electoral College.

Perhaps it’s just been a run of bad luck. But there are lots of reasons to worry about the state of the polling industry. Voters are becoming harder to contact, especially on landline telephones. Online polls have become commonplace, but some eschew probability sampling, historically the bedrock of polling methodology. And in the U.S., some pollsters have been caught withholding results when they differ from other surveys, “herding” toward a false consensus about a race instead of behaving independently. There may be more difficult times ahead for the polling industry.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu May 07, 2015 23:45:51

There's no way you can trust polls when response rates drop below 10%. You simply cannot assume that responders are the same as non-responders. Without that assumption, sample weighting becomes very suspect.

Maybe looking at twitters and stuff will help flesh this stuff out.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu May 07, 2015 23:46:26

Ohh--Labour did hold a constituency in Scotland. One (so far.)
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 07, 2015 23:50:51

Whatever is wrong with the polls, their exit polls are incredible.

This had to be pretty impossible to nail with all the minor parties.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 07, 2015 23:59:50

Conservatives held their one border seat in Scotland

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 00:21:32

Miliband about to speak after winning his seat

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 00:43:16

Cameron about to speak after winning his seat

He looks happier than Ed did

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 00:51:59

He seems like an actor playing the role of Prime Minister. Not exactly a bad politician, but sorta too polished. I could see myself hating him a lot if I disagreed with him politically.

As far as Anglosphere Conservative pols go, give me Harper or Boris over him.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 01:05:30

Taniel ‏@Taniel 2m
How wrong were polls? 11 were released over last 24 hours, and ALL were within the range of +1% Con to +2% Lab.

BBC now projects: +7% Con

Pretty wild

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 01:07:47

George Galloway loses by a lot. Lovely.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 02:32:40

SNP 56 seats
UKIP 1 seat
Greens 1 seat

SNP 1,454,436 votes
UKIP 3,320,713 votes
Greens 980,872 votes

I do like first past the post for democratic accountability and representation reasons, but sheesh it's hard to look at something like tonight and think in a system like this some sort of blended PR and FPTP wouldn't improve things a bit.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 08, 2015 03:41:43

BBC now projecting the Conservatives are going to win an outright majority in Commons. Seems like big polling fuckups are becoming par for the course, as swish/Nate relay to us from above, but for getting shit wrong in a big way it's pretty tough to come up with a recent comparison.

In any case the lesson should be learned, picking a socially inept pinko to run your party is sub-optimal on a strategy front, even if you've got a bunch of other things working for you. Hopefully this lesson is not learned.

:no but really going back to the Bernie Sanders chatter, there's a 0.1% chance the Dems are dumb enough to nominate him but holy hell he'd be fun to beat by 400 electoral votes:

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby drsmooth » Fri May 08, 2015 04:30:25

jerseyhoya wrote: holy hell he'd be fun to beat by 400 electoral votes:


Some will have fun, and others no fresh hell, in '16
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 08, 2015 07:53:26

2nd court has deemed bulk collection of US time/date call info illegal due to it being unsanctioned by Congress. This comes ahead of re-authorization of the 'Patriot' Act. I'll have to read more on this to see what they ruled and such, just saw the headlines this morning.

Personally, I think it's a fairly useless tool clouding the information we should be searching for so let's drop it. But we'll see how this shakes out. The conflation of what the NSA should be doing and ascribing the legality/illegality to that has terrible. I hope we can go back to having a consensus that there is nothing wrong with the NSA's existence. IT IS ALLOWED TO SPY ON OTHER NATIONS, Greenwald/Poitros/etc. Please don't lie to your readers. MYSTIC is not to be conflated with this.
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