Monkeyboy wrote: They are moving very quickly to transfer their fossil fuel use to alternative technologies.

Werthless wrote:If you're worried about the environment, shouldn't you be measuring success by measuring fossil fuel usage? It shouldn't matter greatly whether fossil fuel decreases are caused by more efficient gas engines or migration to alternative energy. It's very difficult to paint China as a model country, given that China's usage of fossil fuels is surging more than any other country. (I'm not saying that the US is the model, either.) China is basically where we were XX years ago. China's coal boom over the last 10 years -- which is probably coming to an end -- is both evidence of its stage of economic development (high on the growth curve) and how much they care about the environment (not as much as they care about economic growth).

There is a reason that China's wealthy are leaving the big cities and living abroad, and it's not for the theater options available in other countries.

jerseyhoya wrote:Five incumbent Dem senators in one cycle is really crazy.

TomatoPie wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Wikipedia, citing Nature wrote:In 2013, China led the world in renewable energy production, with a total capacity of 378 GW, mainly from hydroelectric and wind power. As of 2014, China leads the world in the production and use of wind power, solar photovoltaic power and smart grid technologies, generating almost as much water, wind and solar energy as all of France and Germany's power plants combined. China’s renewable energy sector is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. Since 2005, production of solar cells in China has expanded 100-fold. As Chinese renewable manufacturing has grown, the costs of renewable energy technologies have dropped dramatically. Innovation has helped, but the main driver of reduced costs has been market expansion. [1]

TP, so confused

of course Nature may as well be Pravda

China's tiny use of renewable energy is dwarfed by its consumption of fossil fuels. Visit Beijing, where the sky is always gray except for the first 12 hours after a rainfall. Visit Xian, where the sky is yellow and acrid.

You may wave your pompoms over China's 100 fold increase in solar cells, but you know what Billy Preston would say about that. It's not even a token share of their energy.

TomatoPie wrote:
They have more alternative energy than the US - but once again, Billy Preston. It's not significant nor scalable. Hydro electric is great, dammit. But once you've tapped the mighty Columbia, you ain't gonna get the same result out of the Poquessing. They've spent more energy building wind farms than harvesting wind power and dead birds. Solar has been a pipe dream since the 70s.
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TomatoPie wrote:
I believe in a renewable alternative energy future, yes. The technology for such has yet to be found. And it will make sense only when it's cheaper than fossil fuels. And no government can mandate that, not even the brilliant and mighty authoritarians of China.

Monkeyboy wrote: What does significant or scalable mean exactly? They are increasing their alternative energy use quickly and significantly.

Monkeyboy wrote:You keep showing graphs that only tell part of the story. They are improving their energy efficiency much faster than we are and they are way ahead in developing a smart grid that will save tons of energy. Their home solar program (Golden Sun) just got started in 2009 or 2010, so the benefits of that program, along with several other programs they've started in the last few years, would not show up on your graph.

SK790 wrote:yeah, but

TomatoPie wrote: It will come true when a profit-motivated entity finds a way to generate energy that is cheaper than fossil fuel.