Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Werthless » Thu Dec 04, 2014 16:18:46

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:when the giant Texas sized asteroid is on a path to hit the earth in 100 years my grandkids will be glad we spent money to land on a comet

As long as it doesn't require a working website to be built within 2 years time, I'm sure we won't perish!

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Dec 05, 2014 05:21:02

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:The Galactic Federation are commies, the Ferengi are the true freedom loving capitalists

Are they the ones that look like they have butts for heads?
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby traderdave » Fri Dec 05, 2014 09:53:11

This is kind of old news but I watched a bit of the Landrieu/Cassidy debate the other night and, wow, was it obvious that they really do not like each other. From what I have been reading, it seems that Landrieu doesn't have a prayer of winning the run-off so I can understand why she put on the full-court press during the debate. Still, it seemed like every word she spoke had extra venom with it. Meanwhile, the GOP game plan was in full display from Cassidy - link X Democrat to the failed policies of Barack Obama. Obviously, it is a game plan that worked well; maybe even better than Republicans expected.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby pacino » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:04:27

321,000 jobs created in November, Sept and Oct upped 44K

Unemployment remains 5.8. strongest jobs year since 1999.

of note:
In November, the average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls rose
by 0.1 hour to 34.6 hours. The manufacturing workweek rose by 0.2 hour to 41.1 hours,
and factory overtime edged up by 0.1 hour to 3.5 hours. The average workweek for
production and nonsupervisory employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged at
33.8 hours. (See tables B-2 and B-7.)

we are not seeing the cutback in hours we were promised, despite anecdotal evidence in your local newspaper.

actually seeing a little wage improvement, too:
Average hourly earnings for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls rose by 9 cents
to $24.66 in November. Over the year, average hourly earnings have risen by 2.1 percent.
In November, average hourly earnings of private-sector production and nonsupervisory
employees increased by 4 cents to $20.74. (See tables B-3 and B-8.)
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby TomatoPie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:21:52

http://online.wsj.com/articles/peak-oil-debunked-again-1417739810

“technology responds to need and to price.”



Why does the end-of-oil myth persist? Part of it is that peak oil is more wish than prediction—a desire to see the end of fossil fuels to serve a larger political agenda. It is also a way of scaring governments into pouring money into alternative energy sources that can’t compete with oil and natural gas without subsidies and mandates. Predicting disaster can also be a profitable business and a path to speech-making celebrity.
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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Bucky » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:23:26

ahhh, the wall street journal, that totally unbiased publication

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby dajafi » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:25:26

Why not just quote Sean Hannity or Rush and be done with it?

The sole differences between those guys and the putzes you link to from the WSJ are 1) the right-wing hate guys, however despicable they are, have some actual talent (and thus, maybe ironically, more "right" to be really rich); and 2) the WSJ assholes are more likely to know which salad fork to use.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby TomatoPie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:30:12

dajafi wrote:Why not just quote Sean Hannity or Rush and be done with it?

The sole differences between those guys and the putzes you link to from the WSJ are 1) the right-wing hate guys, however despicable they are, have some actual talent (and thus, maybe ironically, more "right" to be really rich); and 2) the WSJ asshat are more likely to know which salad fork to use.


Don't dismiss the salad fork!

We can ad hominem the folks whose views don't align with ours (I take particular pleasure in knowing that Paul Krugman is the world's best contraindicator of truth) - but instead why not attempt to refute the parts that trouble you?

FWIW, I would join you in ad hominems for Hannity and Rush. They are Al Sharptons of the right - shrill noisemakers exploiting a dumb audience for personal profit
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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby dajafi » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:34:14

You're really comparing Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winning economist (who's been right about pretty much everything in the economy over the last five years… somehow), to the scumbags who run the WSJ editorial page?

At any rate, I actually tried to read the link, but it's subscription only. More generally, there are a lot of people not worth arguing with--basically because they don't do so honestly and in good faith. The WSJ op-ed page contributors are in that boat for me.
Last edited by dajafi on Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:35:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Bucky » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:34:31

because i don't subscribe

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby TomatoPie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:38:35

dajafi wrote:You're really comparing Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winning economist (who's been right about pretty much everything in the economy over the last five years… somehow), to the scumbags who run the WSJ editorial page?

At any rate, I actually tried to read the link, but it's subscription only. More generally, there are a lot of people not worth arguing with--basically because they don't do so honestly and in good faith. The WSJ op-ed page contributors are in that boat for me.


For any WSJ article, google the title. When you click through that way, you get to see the full article.
And the WSJ op-ed guys are no different than the NYT op-ed guys. They have a world view.
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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:44:10

Basically the entire New Republic editorial staff resigned after Chris Hughes forced out Franklin Foer as editor. Implosion of a Washington institution

Why buy the New Republic to try to turn it into another Buzzfeed? If you want a company that does listicles, I'm not sure what wrapping it in the carcass of the New Republic does for you.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby dajafi » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:47:59

Is it this?

If so, it's not an argument; it's a nyah-nyah. I get why it would appeal to you, with its invocations of the comforting economics fairy tales you often cite and its tone of contempt but not loathing for Democrats/progressives. But the sort of case that I might find compelling likely would include, I dunno, numbers of newly discovered reserves and price information for extraction; or figures showing some moderation in oil consumption; or specific refutations of the peak oil arguments. This is a lot of circumstantial bullshit sprinkled with triumphalism. There are respectable minds on the right who occasionally get into these issues--Jim Manzi I think is one such guy--but this guy reads like someone very deeply ensconced in his echo chamber.

That isn't to say that the Peak Oil advocates don't have some explaining to do. In fact Robert Kuttner--whom I generally consider a leftist equivalent of the WSJ op-ed folks, in that he doesn't generally argue with seriousness or good faith--all but throws the theory under the bus. He does, however, make the point that your guy blithely skips over: it's a case of market failure for oil prices not to incorporate the planet-harming externalities arising from its use.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:49:32

kinda wish I had known Foer was editor. his book How Soccer Explains the World is one of my favorite nonfiction books. would've given TNR a try now and then

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby dajafi » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:51:32

The thing with the New Republic is sad, particularly given the hoopla when that guy bought it a couple years ago.

Not sure anyone but Bucky will appreciate this (maybe TP, maybe TCC--you need to be of a certain age, I guess)… but it kind of reminds me of when Norman Braman bought the Eagles about 30 years ago. The previous owner was a disaster and threatening to move the team to Phoenix (the Cardinals were in St. Louis then). Braman came in as a savior… but within three years there was friction over what a cheap bastard he was, and by the early '90s the players were in almost open revolt. Reggie White=Frank Foer, Seth Joyner/Byron Evans/Keith Jackson=all the since-resigned contributing editors…

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Dec 05, 2014 13:01:23

If you think about it, if you think peak oil has been debunked, then you face a choice--either keep burning oil because it's the cheapest energy source out there until the polar ice caps melt and Pine Bluff AR becomes a port on the gulf of Mexico and my house becomes a beach front property, or use government incentives to develop alternative fuels that don't dump even more carbon into the atmosphere.

I do think it's pretty much fact that we will destroy our ecosystem from burning fossil fuels long before we run out of fossil fuels to burn. WELCOME TO THE MIDAMERICAN DESERT! Here's your camel.
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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Werthless » Fri Dec 05, 2014 13:13:26

Higher (pegouvian) taxes on gas (combined with tax cuts on earned, W2 income) probably produces the outcome you're all looking for. And all of this without the government trying to pick winners in the alternative energy business. I support this, even though it will never happen in the current political climate:

Many conservatives don't like it because it's a tax increase, which is why I pointed out that it can be combined with other tax cuts to make it revenue neutral. It also hurts rural drivers most, since there are fewer alternatives to driving when you live outside of a city. Rural people vote GOP, so a tax hurts their supporters. Many liberals don't like it because gas taxes are regressive, and are a higher percent of a poor person's income. More poor people vote Dem, so a tax hurts their supporters. Maybe it's good policy when both Repubs and Dems have a reason to oppose it? :)


Hey, look, it's a classical economics reference! I'm sure docsmooth will be around shortly to deride it. :)

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Dec 05, 2014 13:28:28

Werthless wrote:Higher (pegouvian) taxes on gas (combined with tax cuts on earned, W2 income) probably produces the outcome you're all looking for. And all of this without the government trying to pick winners in the alternative energy business. I support this, even though it will never happen in the current political climate:

Many conservatives don't like it because it's a tax increase, which is why I pointed out that it can be combined with other tax cuts to make it revenue neutral. It also hurts rural drivers most, since there are fewer alternatives to driving when you live outside of a city. Rural people vote GOP, so a tax hurts their supporters. Many liberals don't like it because gas taxes are regressive, and are a higher percent of a poor person's income. More poor people vote Dem, so a tax hurts their supporters. Maybe it's good policy when both Repubs and Dems have a reason to oppose it? :)


Hey, look, it's a classical economics reference! I'm sure docsmooth will be around shortly to deride it. :)



I love me a gas tax--it's one of the ways I provoke my students--I try to get them to tell me why it would be a bad idea. I also throw in the fact that if you raise the gas tax high enough, people will drive less and walk and bicycle more and thus be healthier.

I do wonder if it makes sense to not just subsidize hippie energy, but also nuclear power, which is costly but environmentally sound (barring the rare accident and the little problem of nuclear waste...) or should nuclear power be able to compete better if people realized that they would be much better off living next to a nuclear power plant than downwind from a coal plant or even a natural gas power plant thus getting rid of all the nimbyism that keeps us from enjoying the clean power of splitting the atom.
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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby dajafi » Fri Dec 05, 2014 13:32:11

Other than that the French like it, I'm a fan of nuclear. My understanding is that the disasters and near-disasters have all been preventable, so as long as our government supports a functional, effective regulatory apparatus…

Right. Never mind, then.

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Re: Ink up your Veto Pens this is the POLITICS thread.

Postby Bucky » Fri Dec 05, 2014 13:33:50

yeah, nuclear gets a really bum rap. It is by far the most efficient, least damaging source that we currently have in our arsenal. THANKS JACKSON BROWNE

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