Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:33:10

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Eh I don't know if I got an A on the paper but it definitely helped to get to the page requirements.


yeah, i see, pretty much the same thing :wink:
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 13:00:13

Monkeyboy wrote:Mind blown; Heart broken



I love this kind of exercise. Not heartbroken by it at all; heartened, in fact.

I've noted elsewhere (I believe) the resemblance between the actual distribution of health spending in the US and the actual distribution of wealth depicted in MB's vidclip.

My feeling is this depiction reinforces how incapable we are, as information-processing creatures, of comprehending "abnormal" distributions of any sort of factor. We simply don't do it well, even when made acutely aware of the challenge, and of the implications of failing to do it well, for a bunch of pretty basic reasons. Basically, we do not think in these terms. It's not bad, or wrong, or foolish - it's just the way it is.

So it should give pause when deciding what if anything we want to do about it - whether the "it" is wealth inequality, or spending on health care, or a number of other social issues; issues which, if resolved effectively, may result in us all enjoying more satisfying lives - that to do it successfully we have to overcome some native shortcomings in our basic reasoning faculties. That's a tall order. But not unfillable.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 15:21:32

I'm not so sure I understand what you're getting at, dr. I agree that abnormal distributions are much more difficult to understand, but I'm not sure how this particular one is good in any way, unless you're one of the lucky few that ends up with all the money.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 15:27:40

Oh no, even more out of NJ. It appears one of Christie's closest buddies has done a few other things. I'm sure it's just another coincidence and I'm sure Christie didn't know what his buddy was doing. Despite being friends from childhood and very close, it probably just didn't come up in conversation. Make of it what you will.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/c ... vals-names

A report Saturday by the Bergen Record newspaper said Wildstein purchased the domains buonosilva.org, and millysilva.com in July. Those sites could have been used by Christie's Democratic rival in the gubernatorial election, Barbara Buono, and her running mate, Milly Silva.

Wildstein also reportedly purchased patfoye.com, which bears the name of Port Authority Executive Director Pat Foye, who criticized the lane closures in September.

Mike DuHaime, a close aide to Christie, told the newspaper the governor had no knowledge of Wildstein's web activity.


I'm just reporting the news, not saying one way or another if Christie knew about it or directed it. Obama was a terrorist for attending a church service, but I wouldn't make leaps and bounds like that. Judge for yourself.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:16:38

Monkeyboy wrote:Oh no.... It appears one of Christie's closest buddies has done a few other things. ...

Obama was a terrorist for attending a church service.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:17:39

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Eh I don't know if I got an A on the paper but it definitely helped to get to the page requirements.

We go to our strengths.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:30:21

Monkeyboy wrote:I'm not so sure I understand what you're getting at, dr. I agree that abnormal distributions are much more difficult to understand, but I'm not sure how this particular one is good in any way, unless you're one of the lucky few that ends up with all the money.


One of my points is that you ("you" meaning anyone contemplating the subject) don't NEED to feel the existing distribution of wealth, or the distribution of health care costs, is "good", or "bad", or "just right" - merely that the existing distribution makes no particular sense to us mortals - that a distribution which is susceptible to human action, that intuitively is irrational, has been treated as if it were "the way things MUST be".

What we frequently pretend is that the consequences of the way things are is "natural", that any other arrangement could only be worse - which suggests that the existing order of things is not and has not been continually subject to human manipulation, or modes of human manipulation that can be improved upon. I don't believe we need to pretend that. I don't believe we can afford to continue pretending that.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:32:09

Werthless wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:Oh no.... It appears one of Christie's closest buddies has done a few other things. ...

Obama was a terrorist for attending a church service.



We are responsible for those we spend time with, you know. I knew a guy who stabbed someone to death (somewhat accidentally), which is why I am typing this from death row.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:34:19

drsmooth wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:I'm not so sure I understand what you're getting at, dr. I agree that abnormal distributions are much more difficult to understand, but I'm not sure how this particular one is good in any way, unless you're one of the lucky few that ends up with all the money.


One of my points is that you ("you" meaning anyone contemplating the subject) don't NEED to feel the existing distribution of wealth, or the distribution of health care costs, is "good", or "bad", or "just right" - merely that the existing distribution makes no particular sense to us mortals - that a distribution which is susceptible to human action, that intuitively is irrational, has been treated as if it were "the way things MUST be".

What we frequently pretend is that the consequences of the way things are is "natural", that any other arrangement could only be worse - which suggests that the existing order of things is not and has not been continually subject to human manipulation, or modes of human manipulation that can be improved upon. I don't believe we need to pretend that. I don't believe we can afford to continue pretending that.



so you're saying things can get better if we make them better. I agree. Let's do it.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Mon Dec 16, 2013 16:58:21

I also know someone who purchased domain names. I should probably resign from my job in disgrace.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 17:39:05

Werthless wrote:I also know someone who purchased domain names. I should probably resign from my job in disgrace.


I've sold domain names. What do I win?
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 18:44:48

Werthless wrote:I also know someone who purchased domain names. I should probably resign from my job in disgrace.



The domain names of one of your best friend's political opponents? Yes, you should.

Oh wait, he already did that.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Dec 16, 2013 22:10:51

Monkeyboy wrote:This is what you said about the appointments. People can judge for themselves if you were accepting the absolute fact that this has been driven by the GOP or if you were acting like the blocking of nominees is just some bipartisan artifact of how things have moved over the past 30 years. (bold is my emphasis)

I think it's a good idea for the Democrats. Frist should have done it back in 2005. It seems like there's been an ever increasing willingness of the party outside the White House to use more extreme tactics to prevent the president's nominees from getting through. It's all a bit partisan depending on where you sit on who deserves more of the blame, but I'm writing so we'll start it at Bork, which seemed to really ignite the idea that voting someone down for ideological reasons was something the Senate ought to consider. Then it increases under Clinton, with Republicans using their majority on the Judiciary Committee to keep nominees they didn't like from ever seeing the floor. Then another ratchet up under Bush, with Democrats using the filibuster to target more than a few nominees, but usually for specific reasons (too conservative or worse yet, conservative AND appealing/Supreme Court material). Now under Obama another step up, with Republicans filibustering lots of people they seemingly don't even have specific objections to, they just don't want Obama to be able to appoint them.


And here is one chart that can allow people to see if what you said is actually true in any way. You are too smart and too involved in this stuff to act like you didn't already know the basics of this chart.

Image

I didn't respond to this yesterday because it was too enjoyable of a day to do so.

You have up there the chart for executive nominees, not judicial nominees, which is the escalation that I was talking about in my post. They are not the same thing, and you may or may not be too smart to act like you didn't know that your chart doesn't include judicial nominations. People can make up their own mind on that.

Again I never said or tried to suggest that Democrats filibustered Republican picks as much as the GOP has Obama's. Phrases such as "an ever increasing willingness of the party outside the White House to use more extreme tactics" and "Now under Obama another step up" and "used it a bunch more than they did" could have been a hint that I was not saying that. I was arguing the GOP's increased use of the filibuster of nominees was best understood within the context of how the use has evolved over the past three decades, an argument I tried to make in both the above post you quoted and in this post responding to td citing a report from CRS. People can still think the GOP ruined everything and deserving of all the blame for how the nominations process has grown more contentious if they want, but I didn't think that was right and thought it was worth making that point.

My favorite part about all of this is your choice of an example of you being unable to take me seriously is you chose a post about a controversial, partisan issue where my first sentence was I think it's a good idea for the Democrats.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 07:49:45

I don't see why it matters if you think it's a good idea for democrats, but whatever. You can believe that the GOP hasn't been the ones driving the contentiousness if you want. Fortunately, the public has started to notice the truth. Ryan's willingness to once again hold the nation hostage shows how out of touch he and the rest of the GOp is. If not for the damage it does, I'd root them on.

And you're right to enjoy the nice days. We only get so many of them. If not for duties, I would be outside right now because it's beautiful here today.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52:24

say it isn't so:
The Senate Conservatives Fund, which was already targeting Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) in his 2014 reelection bid, is now going after House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) too.

In an e-mail to supporters, the group accuses Boehner of declaring "war on conservatives" by pushing for the budget compromise last week.

"What these leaders are doing to conservatives is no different from what the IRS got caught doing to them this summer," the group's executive director, Matt Hoskins, writes. "They're using their power to discriminate against people they see as a political threat."

Boehner last week criticized such groups in a way he hadn't before, saying they had lost "all credibility" for opposing the budget before it was officially introduced.

McConnell has also denounced these groups, accusing them of exploiting intra-party unrest for financial gain.

The Senate Conservatives Fund, which was once allied with ex-senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), does not say that it will target Boehner in a primary, as it is doing with McConnell, but it does urge its donors to contribute to five Senate candidates it has endorsed in order to fight back.

The House Republican who crafted the budget compromise, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has also found himself earning the opposition of these groups.

Despite the opposition, the budget passed in the House by an overwhelming margin. Republicans voted for it 169-62.

i tend to wonder if some of this isn't a fake fight designed to make these guys seem reasonable.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:55:14

if an international pipeline isn't needed, will it still be built:
Continental Resources, one of the companies that has committed to ship crude on TransCanada Corp's proposed Keystone XL pipeline, now says the controversial pipeline is no longer needed.

Continental has signed on to ship some 35,000 barrels of its own oil from the Bakken field of North Dakota on the 1,179-mile, $5.4-billion Keystone XL line. But construction of the pipeline has been delayed for years as TransCanada has sought regulatory approvals, and Continental has since turned to railroads to get its crude to oil refineries.

Harold Hamm, chief executive of the independent oil producer, told Reuters that his company and the U.S. oil industry in general are no longer counting on Keystone XL.

Oil companies have been strong advocates of Keystone in order to help alleviate oil supply bottlenecks, but Hamm's remarks raise the question of whether regulatory delays have eroded the industry's enthusiasm for the line, which has faced aggressive resistance from environmentalists.

When asked whether Keystone XL is still needed, Hamm said "not for our Bakken (crude). And is it needed for the industry? I don't think so ... not in the U.S."

"Rail has been a big factor and, you know, proven to be a very effective way" (of getting Continental's crude to market), he said on the sidelines of the Platts Global Energy Outlook Forum in New York on Thursday.



In 2010, Continental and other companies persuaded TransCanada to add a $140 million extension spur to Keystone XL to pick up and transport U.S.-produced Bakken crude beginning in 2014.

Before TransCanada agreed to ship U.S. crude down Keystone XL, Hamm had lobbied in 2009 against the pipeline, arguing that it could flood the U.S. Midwest with a glut of cheap Canadian crude, hurting independent oil producers such as Continental.

Bakken producers have seen growing demand in recent years from U.S. refiners eager to lower their costs by buying the region's attractively priced light, sweet crude. That's made the opportunity cost of waiting for the pipeline even higher.

It isn't clear whether Continental will ship any crude on Keystone XL if it is eventually built. So far, Continental has not sought to back out of its contract as a shipper on the line, Hamm said.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:01:01

sorry poor, childless adults, you're on your own as far as health insurance
Twenty-three states are currently not planning to move forward with the Medicaid expansion, which was meant to cover millions of low-income Americans. The population they leave behind is mostly young, minority, single adults, according to two new data briefs from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Their analysis is one of the most in-depth looks at the population that falls into this coverage gap, too poor to qualify for insurance subsidies (those are available only to those who earn above the poverty line, about $12,000 for an individual). They're also shut out of the traditional Medicaid program, which tends to cover low-income parents, children and those with disabilities.

Most of them have jobs. Of the 4.8 million people estimated to be in the coverage gap, 2.6 million are working either full- or part-time. Among those working, half are in the agriculture industry. Most work for businesses with fewer than 100 employees, which tend to be less likely to offer insurance coverage


They skew younger and healthier. Half are under 35; three-quarters describe themselves as being in good, very good or excellent health.

If there's any silver lining to this data set, it does suggest that those in the Medicaid gap are, from their self-reporting, in better health and potentially in less need of health care. That obviously doesn't protect against catastrophic events that have little to do with an individual's current health. The health-care law was supposed to offer such protection, but -- for these millions of Americans -- now it won't.

thanks, John Roberts
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:29:02

Huckabee's going to run for POTUS again. [Note--this is speculation on my part, not official news or anything. Hey may not really be trying to win, but rather looking for a way to prop up his sagging ratings or something.]
Be Bold!

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Roger Dorn » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:18:23

This country is long overdue for a Christian fundamentalist to be elected President

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 17, 2013 15:40:03

debate ends with 67 senators voting ay, Toomey voted nay. gotta love him

we got another short-term budget
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