Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:09:37

interesting

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Fri Dec 13, 2013 22:34:06

http://www.investigativeproject.org/doc ... s/2281.pdf

Interesting info about the Wichita would be suicide bomber
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 05:44:49

Uh Oh....

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/n ... me-reisgns

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) announced the resignation Friday of an official tied to the growing scandal over a traffic jam on the George Washington Bridge last summer.

Bill Baroni, an ally of Christie's who was the deputy executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which oversees the bridge, resigned effective immediately.


JH hasn't posted in this thread for 3.5 days. Any chance he's in Christie's bunker, preparing for the onslaught of media coverage when it turns out that Christie ordered the code red, I mean, lane closings.

Please God, let someone photoshop Christie's head into that scene from A Few Good Men:

Son, we live in a world that has roads and bridges, and those roads and bridges have to be guarded by men with orange cones wearing bright yellow jackets. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for traffic jams, and you curse the Port Authority. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That this traffic jam, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that Governor's mansion, you need me in that Governor's mansion. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a slow down sign, and stand by an orange cone. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.


I learned from watching the GOP that there is always fire where there is smoke. I just wish Christie would own up to the fact that he risked lives to settle a political score.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Dec 14, 2013 08:33:32

Outside of answering, mp's question a few days ago, I've posted in this thread once since before Thanksgiving, and it's been kinda lovely not talking about politics on the Internet.

The idea that the lane closings were politically motivated originally came from the mayor of Fort Lee, who has since withdrawn the charge. It seems more than a little farfetched that among the hundred or two hundred or whatever Democratic mayors in the state who didn't endorse him for reelection, Christie decided that the Democratic mayor of a small North Jersey town needed to be singled out for punishment, and his punishment would be the Port Authority randomly closing a few lanes on the George Washington Bridge. On top of that this retribution for not endorsing Christie would have to be implied from the action, since no one actually told the mayor or anyone else affected by the closings that that was what happened.

What we know so far is proper procedure was not followed in the lanes being closed, so people resigning over it is appropriate (imagine that, people responsible for fucking things up actually losing their jobs). The Assembly is treating this like Watergate, so we'll learn way more details than are necessary about how and why the decisions surrounding the lane closures were made over the next few weeks.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 08:46:38

jerseyhoya wrote:Outside of answering, mp's question a few days ago, I've posted in this thread once since before Thanksgiving, and it's been kinda lovely not talking about politics on the Internet.

The idea that the lane closings were politically motivated originally came from the mayor of Fort Lee, who has since withdrawn the charge. It seems more than a little farfetched that among the hundred or two hundred or whatever Democratic mayors in the state who didn't endorse him for reelection, Christie decided that the Democratic mayor of a small North Jersey town needed to be singled out for punishment, and his punishment would be the Port Authority randomly closing a few lanes on the George Washington Bridge. On top of that this retribution for not endorsing Christie would have to be implied from the action, since no one actually told the mayor or anyone else affected by the closings that that was what happened.

What we know so far is proper procedure was not followed in the lanes being closed, so people resigning over it is appropriate (imagine that, people responsible for fucking things up actually losing their jobs). The Assembly is treating this like Watergate, so we'll learn way more details than are necessary about how and why the decisions surrounding the lane closures were made over the next few weeks.


So the bunker has internet access after all?

Well, I just think it's very strange that they went so far outside normal procedures. Christie is known for this type of behavior, not this specific behavior, but he is brutal to those who have gone against him when he's had the chance. If he doesn't want to be accused of stuff like this, maybe he needs to stop doing things like this. Sometimes thieves get accused of stealing things they didn't steal and sometimes liars get accused of lying when they are telling the truth.

And you and other GOPers won't get much sympathy about them treating this like Watergate considering how your guys have treated the past two dem presidents and the person most likely to be the next dem nominee with all sorts of manufactured controversies. Maybe it's time to get some of your own medicine. If he did it, he should pay for it because he could have killed someone. And if he didn't do it, then too bad. It's all about winning, truth be damned, right?
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Dec 14, 2013 08:54:09

It's that sort of incisive analysis that made taking a break from posting in this thread seem like a good idea. Jesus christ

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Sat Dec 14, 2013 13:13:21

Easy to criticize Christie when you assume it's his fault, ain't it? That's hilarious.

MB, reread your own post, and consider how it reads to someone who actually is not jumping to conclusions. You might cringe.


On the issue itself, I thought someone resigned last week over this? How many people resigned?

On the ACA, how many people are going to lose their jobs when the number of insured Americans declines by millions? We'll see how accountable and transparent the administration is.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 13:16:35

wow, I thought it was obvious I was making fun of your party and the ridiculous way it jumps to conclusions. I'm doing parody, man.

Now you know what it's like to read the news and see what tea partiers from your party are saying. Welcome to the world of dems having to read nonsense from the right.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Sat Dec 14, 2013 13:21:50

Werthless wrote:Easy to criticize Christie when you assume it's his fault, ain't it? That's hilarious.

MB, reread your own post, and consider how it reads to someone who actually is not jumping to conclusions. You might cringe.


On the issue itself, I thought someone resigned last week over this? How many people resigned?

On the ACA, how many people are going to lose their jobs when the number of insured Americans declines by millions? We'll see how accountable and transparent the administration is.

millions have already been covered through its provisions, so I'm not sure what you mean. it doesn't just start in 2014. one aspect of it does.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 13:26:17

well, pac. It's easy for him to think that when he already assumes it will fail. He should reread his own post.

For the record, I think it's highly unlikely that Christie ordered anything to happen. I do think it's possible, however, that one of the people he appointed/hired made the decision to do it out of sense of spite. It's the type of thing little people do when they are in charge of their little worlds. Vindictiveness doesn't know parties, though the current group of republicans do seem to cultivate it.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Sat Dec 14, 2013 14:08:25

Werthless wrote:On the ACA, how many people are going to lose their jobs when the number of insured Americans declines by millions? We'll see how accountable and transparent the administration is.

reread your own post, and consider how it reads to someone who actually is not jumping to conclusions. You might cringe.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 15:37:11

Mind blown; Heart broken

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Dec 14, 2013 16:27:09

Monkeyboy wrote:wow, I thought it was obvious I was making fun of your party and the ridiculous way it jumps to conclusions. I'm doing parody, man.

Now you know what it's like to read the news and see what tea partiers from your party are saying. Welcome to the world of dems having to read nonsense from the right.

As with the last time you used this parody explanation, I think it falls short because you legitimately believe a lot of what you're saying. You're posting stuff you believe while trumping it up a bit (and it's unclear what parts are intentionally hyperbolic) in the quest of showing just how unreasonable tea partiers are. Hilarious. You're really showing everyone.

It makes it impossible to respond to most of your posts because you're making points (or at least you're trying to make points), and you actually believe most of what you're writing. It's difficult to tease out what you actually believe and what is the 'parody' so it's tough to answer with anything other than a blanket statement that what you just posted was dumb.

The tendency for partisans to jump to conclusions based on an incomplete set of facts or impugn the motives of their opponents without having any real basis for doing so is not something unique to conservatives in American politics. And I don't think we have any people here with right of center viewpoints who post like that regularly. If you think you're providing a unique service to us by posting like that, you're not.

The majority of articles that get posted in this thread might be things the individual poster agrees with, but they are also linked because people think they're interesting or important or think that others might find them interesting or important. Most of our political arguments are civil, and while they might be a bit repetitive, but they're generally no worse than anything on the sports side of the board.

You're going out of your way to be obnoxious. Jeff used to go too far with personal insults, but you're a bruuuutal poster in this thread most of the time. You don't have to be...it seems like you do it on purpose. I don't get it.

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Sat Dec 14, 2013 16:34:26

Werthless wrote:
....when the number of insured Americans declines by millions?


:shock:

:lol:

when that happens, Captain Conundrum, you can teach the hokey pokey to the monkeys flying out of your butt
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 20:41:08

I don't think I'm providing you much of a service, JH. I think you'll support pretty much any idea from the right that will help your side win. I believe this is the case because you've pretty much admitted that all you care about is your side winning and that pretty much anything should be on the table in terms of tactics, regardless of truth. I find that hard to respect.

I took on the parody thing before the election because I was tired of listening to the spin and tired of listening (not so much from you, except when you thought it would help your side) to the right's dishonest tactics. I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of it by parroting some of the same ideas. Yes, all politicians are sometimes full of it and both sides will stretch the truth to help their cause, but the current GOP has taken this to a new level. Your willingness to post with a straight face that what dems and reps were doing in terms of blocking appointments was roughly equal is one example. I would never do that. So I sometimes act sarcastic about it and act like a liberal version of a tea partier. I'm not sure how else to respond to someone saying that dems block judges/appointees just as much as reps.

It is true that I mix in some things that I do believe. For example, I do think it's possible what happened on the bridge was one of Christie's appointees going off the reservation and doing something vindictive. I think it's possible because their explanation makes less sense than the vindictive explanation. I also genuinely thought that Mitt strapping a dog to his roof on a cross country trip was part of a theme that showed an empathy deficit. If it helps, I'll try to make it more clear when I'm being sarcastic.

But to be more substantive (referencing the video I posted), how you gonna make some of that money trickle down to the middle class and poor? It may be the most important issue of the coming decade (other than the coming alien invasion, of course).
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Dec 14, 2013 21:41:40

I've never admitted that all I care about is my side winning because I don't believe that. I do believe the Republican Party winning elections is a necessary step for achieving a majority of the policy goals I care about (which these days puts me out of step with some people on my side). I post more about elections than policy because they were my job and are now the focus of my research and are the things I like talking about the most and know the most about.

As for some of the other stuff, of course I didn't say the Democrats in the Senate blocked judges/appointees just as much as Republicans. Your incredulity at reading something I didn't write and holding it up as a prime example of my failings is classic.

A guy who used to post around these parts once put it pretty well, I think. "I pointed this out before, and it remains true: Monkeyboy continues to argue with a mythical Republican that exists in his head and not on this messageboard. Every now and then someone will post something close enough to one of his prepared battles that we get to see his half of the Olympic rhetorical clash of ideas! Oh, see his white hot anger! Oh, tremble at his self-righteous lectures!"

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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 05:36:25

This is what you said about the appointments. People can judge for themselves if you were accepting the absolute fact that this has been driven by the GOP or if you were acting like the blocking of nominees is just some bipartisan artifact of how things have moved over the past 30 years. (bold is my emphasis)



I think it's a good idea for the Democrats. Frist should have done it back in 2005. It seems like there's been an ever increasing willingness of the party outside the White House to use more extreme tactics to prevent the president's nominees from getting through. It's all a bit partisan depending on where you sit on who deserves more of the blame, but I'm writing so we'll start it at Bork, which seemed to really ignite the idea that voting someone down for ideological reasons was something the Senate ought to consider. Then it increases under Clinton, with Republicans using their majority on the Judiciary Committee to keep nominees they didn't like from ever seeing the floor. Then another ratchet up under Bush, with Democrats using the filibuster to target more than a few nominees, but usually for specific reasons (too conservative or worse yet, conservative AND appealing/Supreme Court material). Now under Obama another step up, with Republicans filibustering lots of people they seemingly don't even have specific objections to, they just don't want Obama to be able to appoint them.


And here is one chart that can allow people to see if what you said is actually true in any way. You are too smart and too involved in this stuff to act like you didn't already know the basics of this chart.

Image
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 03:32:20

Would once again like to thank everyone for the help on my stat project. As far as TV saying I'm doing it wrong, I was not presenting this as any academic finding. I wanted enough alternative explanations to get through a term paper and get my ass out with an A.

This semester was a huge pain in the ass, but I also got experience in some pretty awesome campaigns as far as NJ goes. Pretty excited to find out where everything goes when I graduate.
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 09:42:03

The Nightman Cometh wrote: I wanted enough alternative explanations to get through a term paper and get my ass out with an A.


So you're saying you achieved an A in a course offered by an accredited institution of higher learning in the United States of America thanks in no small part to the exertions of a pack of layabouts you chatted up on an internet message board devoted to the goings-on of an intermittently successful major league baseball franchise?

the borg has made some kind of breakthrough
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Re: Last I Checked, It's still 2013 - Politics Thread

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:41:25

Eh I don't know if I got an A on the paper but it definitely helped to get to the page requirements.
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