jerseyhoya wrote:And yet they've kept us remarkably safe for almost 12 years now

I would attribute that to the streamlining and better communication between the various federal departments and states post 9/11, as well as advances in intelligence gathering capabilities.

Sorry, I just don't buy the argument that consistently undermining a states sovereignty and shooting missiles constantly from unmanned drones, killing civilians in the process, is making us any safer. Nor did the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq help any, the only thing those wars helped to do was destabilize the region and ripen the environment for Al-Qaedas resurgence.

Roger Dorn wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:And yet they've kept us remarkably safe for almost 12 years now

I would attribute that to the streamlining and better communication between the various federal departments and states post 9/11, as well as advances in intelligence gathering capabilities.

Sorry, I just don't buy the argument that consistently undermining a states sovereignty and shooting missiles constantly from unmanned drones, killing civilians in the process, is making us any safer. Nor did the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq help any, the only thing those wars helped to do was destabilize the region and ripen the environment for Al-Qaedas resurgence.

Those things helped for sure, but an aggressive policy against threats has also been important. We've had two different presidents over this time span, with the second highly critical of many aspects of how the first handled counterterrorism policy. Obama has made decisions to keep in place and even expand a lot of the existing efforts after looking at the intelligence. I think that's pretty notable given it doesn't seem like he would be naturally inclined to go that route unless he was convinced it was necessary for national security. On the other hand, we have you not buying that argument.

As for the last bit there, the reason Al Qaeda needs a resurgence is because we smashed their base of operations in Afghanistan and continue to blow up their leadership. In your view of what happened, what caused Al Qaeda to fall apart needing to be resurrected? Better communication between various federal departments? Magic?

jerseyhoya wrote:
As for the last bit there, the reason Al Qaeda needs a resurgence is because we smashed their base of operations in Afghanistan and continue to blow up their leadership. In your view of what happened, what caused Al Qaeda to fall apart needing to be resurrected? Better communication between various federal departments? Magic?

remember everyone, i'm the incomprehensible one around here

What about that was incomprehensible?

Jerz, you'll be overjoyed to learn Krugman has corrected himself on the size of the republicans' proposed food stamps cut:

Krugman, in NYTimes wrote:Correction: In my column on Monday, I somehow misstated the Republican plan on food stamps, which was for a doubling of planned cuts — a significant cut but not, as I said, a halving of benefits.

Not surprisingly, he's still reluctant to waste time trying to find high-profile ways to afflict the afflicted, rather than supporting action do things like encourage job creation. No doubt the ass-toot republican leadership in congress will soon be heeding that advice, once they've completed a round of health reform repeal votes and boning up on other gummint shutdown options.

why are liberals not for bill de blasio? just curious

JP Morgan is being investigated by DOJ over LIBOR, mortgage securities, MF Global, aluminum price inflation, and possibly other crimes.

pacino wrote:why are liberals not for bill de blasio? just curious

The ones I know are. And I'm at pains to tell them why he's fucking terrible.

thanks for the explanation...


stop and frisk by the numbers

Are the same people who are for Stop and Frisk the people against Airport Screening? Just wondering.

Data question would be if the 48/45/40% B/H/W breakdown were mapped against geography and demographic would we see that these actions are in areas that the populations mirror the statistics? Notice that the statistics show that a majority of the reasons for the actions are heavily weighted toward the whites. The point of the spear is about "furtive movements", but it would seem that to be just part of the story.

My comments are principally about the data as presented, as IMO stop and frisk seems like a lousy way to go about street policing as a institutional practice.

pacino wrote:thanks for the explanation...


stop and frisk by the numbers

this is sad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyreg ... html?_r=1&

Distrust of the police runs deep in the Brownsville Houses and the Langston Hughes Houses, which are part of a police service area in East Brooklyn that had 3,020 police stops in the first quarter of 2013. And young black men (and some not so young), who have borne the brunt of the stops, said they had little hope that even as the rule book of stop-and-frisk policing changed, the practice would change along with it.

“Thank God,” muttered Steve Doughty, 38, when he heard about the judge’s decision, standing outside the Brownsville Houses on Blake Avenue. He said he had been stopped several times, once for walking between his building and his parked car while wearing a hoodie.
...

“They’ve been talking about the stop-and-frisk thing for five, six, seven years and nothing’s changed,” said Gregory Campbell, 41. “They just say it, say it, say it, but the cops come out here and keep doing it. It’s going to take a lot more than just talk.”

And to the residents of Police Service Area No. 2, that was all Judge Scheindlin’s decision was: talk.

“The judge is in the chamber,” said Demetrius Denson, 35. He said that though officers might be instructed to use less force or stop fewer people, officers could sidestep any new rules by provoking people on the street into acting nervously or suspiciously.

... damn

i think you stopped short. the next line is:

He lived in Brownsville until about three years ago, he said, but moved upstate because “it’s too much like a jail.”

yeah that officers sidestepping to provoke people line just bummed me out. made me think of trayvon.

happy tuesday

pacino wrote:thanks for the explanation...


stop and frisk by the numbers

What, about di Blasio? Nobody asked.

I could go on and on, and I've realized in watching this election that at least by NYC terms, I've probably become a Republican as they existed before 1975 or so... but here are three.

1. He's an absurd panderer even by local pol standards. Google his name and "Upper East Side waste transfer station"... or, even better given our City's biggest problem, check out his recent statements about negotiating with unions. He says that he'll be able to deal with the UFT because they didn't endorse him... an endorsement he all but stood on his head for. Not mentioned is how he'll deal with the unions that did endorse him.

2. He comes from the Clinton machine, having managed Hillary's 2000 senate campaign, and clearly picked up the habit of saying and doing anything to get into office but has maybe a hundredth of Bill's charisma and empathy, or Hillary's smarts.

3. The people I've talked with who've worked for him describe a lousy manager and an obnoxious human being. And that's only a $3 million office, meaning that there are about three dozen people in my agency more qualified to serve as mayor.

It might boil down to DiBlasio being a guy who thinks Dinkins was a better mayor than Bloomberg. Better human being? Absolutely no question. Bloomberg's a dick. But he's run the city exceptionally well, and the things he's failed on--mostly having to do with short-term turnaround in the trend of inequality--are beyond the power of any mayor.

DiBlasio, and all the Democrats other than Quinn, basically are making a case for office on their greater empathy and good liberal intentions. I'll take the jerk who can run things.

stop-and-frisk policies are "beyond the power of any mayor?"

i would just say that one has the power as mayor/governor to fire and replace. Corbett's done it after he put in a bunch of cronies to start off his administration. I think Bloomberg just really likes Ray Kelly.



for some reason last night i had a dream about being in a science class where they discussed former Mayor Dinkins

Wasn't talking about stop and frisk. FWIW, I think the mayor is about 80 percent wrong on that. I haven't read the ruling, but having some background knowledge and a sense of Judge Scheindlin, I'd be surprised if she wasn't much closer to the mark than the Mayor.

That said, low-income and minority communities probably have derived the biggest benefit from the amazing reductions in crime over the last 20 years. I can't totally blame the mayor and commissioner for feeling like that good work is going unrecognized, and their admittedly petulant and irrational reaction to that.

Is Cory Booker going to be coronated tonight, or are the people of NJ going to surprise us? Go RUSH HOLT!

rooting for the physics nerd as well. booker kinda sux

booker does suck in comparison to Holt. maybe Holt can be senator next go around.