Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Thu May 23, 2013 11:52:35

pacino wrote:
pacino wrote:
and, there is no dispute that climate change made the storm's impact worse, anywhere from 5-10%, which makes the damage to humans even worse.

http://www.livescience.com/28489-sandy- ... onths.html

http://www.popsci.com/environment/artic ... cane-sandy

I believe there is some dispute over how much greater the impact was.
"[S]tudies of storm intensity/frequency in a warming world show changes on the order of 5 to 10 percent several decades from now," Freedman says.

Trenberth, who was among the first to attribute seasonal U.S. weather changes to El Niño (a warming water pattern in the equatorial Pacific) and La Niña (a cooling water pattern in the equatorial Pacific), estimated that between 5 percent and 10 percent of Katrina’s precipitation was due to climate change. "That’s probably conservative,” he said.

"It has been estimated that heavy rains in tropical storms, including Katrina, have increased by 6 percent to 8 percent as a result of higher sea-surface temperatures and more water vapor in the atmosphere," Trenberth said, adding that, at the time of Katrina, the ocean temperatures were the highest ever recorded in the Atlantic.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Thu May 23, 2013 13:02:49

pacino wrote:the buck stops over there. who is he, Obama?!

:) I'm with you on the drone killings.

But your joke reminded me of the Axelrod quote:

Part of being President is there's so much beneath you that you can't know because the government is so vast.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Barry Jive » Thu May 23, 2013 13:43:18

pacino wrote:
Roger Dorn wrote:Holder admits 4 Americans have been killed by drone attacks since 2009.

do we even know who we're killing? they targeted ONE of them, one of them killed in a signature strike. OOPS

killing our own citizens and we dont even know who they are ahead of time, maybe? the people they killed should sue the government for illegally killing them. how this isnt the biggest scandal of them all is beyond me. no trial or judicial or due process, and we didn't even necessarily target 3 of 4. holder should be fired, brennan shouldnt have been authorized, and obama needs to answer to this (there needs to be a congressional hearing to see what is what)...wonder what he'll say in today's speech


remember that DOJ white paper that leaked in February? the one that said, ex post facto, that all this stuff was okay
no offense but you are everything that's wrong with America

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu May 23, 2013 13:55:21

waiting for one of you to say "fuck it - follow me, and one of you bring your machete!"
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu May 23, 2013 14:48:14

Speech Obama's giving on drone strikes & drone policy is long, and complex, and probably not terrifically persuasive for anyone

Big downside is it mostly will remind people that adulthood is complicated and ambiguous and messy and disappointing, maybe especially here in the 21st century US of A

thanks, etc
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu May 23, 2013 14:55:46

Getting some extended heckling now....strange days indeed
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu May 23, 2013 15:09:01

pretty pleased:
In a widely anticipated speech at the National Defense University, Mr. Obama offered his most expansive defense of the drone war he has waged since taking office, but he signaled that he planned to wind down the strikes, which have stirred controversy at home and abroad. He said he would impose a higher standard on authorizing such aerial attacks and shift responsibility more from the C.I.A. to the military, and he suggested the creation of a secret court that would have to sign off on strikes in the future.

Mr. Obama also called on Congress to revise the authorization of force it passed in the aftermath of Sept. 11 to reflect the changing nature of the war on terrorism. And he renewed his moribund effort to close the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, by saying that he would lift a moratorium on transferring scores of detainees to Yemen.

Taken together, the president’s words and deeds added up to an effort to move the country away from the perpetual war on terrorism envisioned by his predecessor, George W. Bush, toward a more limited campaign against particular groups that would eventually be curtailed even if the threat of terrorism could never be eliminated.

“Our systematic effort to dismantle terrorist organizations must continue,” Mr. Obama said. “But this war, like all wars, must end. That’s what history advises. That’s what our democracy demands.”

Mr. Obama rejected the notion of an expansive war on terrorism and instead articulated a narrower understanding of the mission for the United States. “Beyond Afghanistan, we must define our effort not as a boundless ‘global war on terror’ but rather as a series of persistent, targeted efforts to dismantle specific networks of violent extremists that threaten America,” he said.

“Neither I, nor any president, can promise the total defeat of terror,” Mr. Obama added. “We will never erase the evil that lies in the hearts of some human beings, nor stamp out every danger to our open society. But what we can do — what we must do — is dismantle networks that pose a direct danger to us, and make it less likely for new groups to gain a foothold, all the while maintaining the freedoms and ideals that we defend.”

just about everything i wanted...but i still want to find out more about these 4 killings:
The new standard could signal an end to “signature strikes,” or attacks on groups of unknown men based only on their presumed status as members of Al Qaeda or some other enemy group — an approach that administration critics say has resulted in many civilian casualties. Although officials did not explicitly rule out such strikes in the future, they said the requirements for authorizing them were increased and the need for them was reduced.

As part of the shift, the president has decided that the military should take over the drone program from the C.I.A. In briefing reporters on the condition of anonymity on Thursday, an official said that the C.I.A. would not necessarily give up involvement in such strikes, but that “the preference” would be for the military to have “the lead for the use of force not just in war zones like Afghanistan but beyond Afghanistan, where we are fighting Al Qaeda and associated forces.”

The C.I.A., which has overseen the drone war in the tribal areas of Pakistan and elsewhere, will generally cede its role to the military after a six-month transition period as forces draw down in Afghanistan, other officials said Wednesday. Drone strikes have already been decreasing in the past few years as targets have been killed and opposition has grown. John O. Brennan, the new C.I.A. director, has been eager to shift the agency more toward espionage, intelligence gathering and analysis and away from the paramilitary mission it has adopted since Sept. 11.]


He also weighed in on the dispute over the Justice Department’s seizure of journalists’ phone and e-mail records in pursuing national security leak investigations. He said he had talked with Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., who agreed to review department guidelines and meet with media executives and report back by July 12.

“I am troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable,” Mr. Obama said. “Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs.”

In renewing his vow to close the Guantánamo prison, Mr. Obama highlighted one of his most prominent unkept promises. He came into office promising to shutter the facility, which has been a symbol around the world of American excesses, within a year, but Congress moved to block him, and he then largely dropped the effort.

With 166 detainees still at the prison, Mr. Obama said he would take what steps he could with his own authority to reduce the population. The largest group of detainees remaining are from Yemen, and he decided to lift the moratorium he imposed on transferring those prisoners back to their home country.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Werthless » Thu May 23, 2013 15:48:25

I hope he follows through.

He "signaled" that he "planned" to wind down the strikes. "Vows" to close Guantanamo. "Troubled" by the chilling effect of anti-whistleblower actions in his DOJ. Forgive me if I'm suspicious when he talks about executing things that he's been promising for years.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby Roger Dorn » Thu May 23, 2013 15:54:23

I have reservations as well but I hope he follows thru with his promises this time around. Very pleased that he is recognizing the need for more oversight into the use of drones.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Thu May 23, 2013 16:31:36

He won't.

And WTF does this mean:

Mr. Obama also called on Congress to revise the authorization of force it passed in the aftermath of Sept. 11 to reflect the changing nature of the war on terrorism.


Nevermind, from the Post:

On Thursday, he called on Congress to help refine the Authorization for Use of Military Force, passed three days after the Sept. 11 attacks, to accommodate the U.S. focus from two large battlefields to many smaller ones.


So, he decried the idea of continuous war, but wants the AUMF to allow more flexibility for the Commander in Chief, eh?

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby karn » Thu May 23, 2013 16:40:09

Changing nature = de-emphasizing Muslim and Islamist groups while superpowering the DHS domestically

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 23, 2013 18:02:55

Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on a controversial search warrant that identified Fox News reporter James Rosen as a “possible co-conspirator” in violations of the Espionage Act and authorized seizure of his private emails, a law enforcement official told NBC News on Thursday.

Holder OK'd search warrant for Fox News reporter's private emails, official says

How the hell is Eric Holder conducting a review of DoJ guidelines when he was the one to sign off on the fucking warrant?

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu May 23, 2013 19:58:26

karn wrote:Changing nature = de-emphasizing Muslim and Islamist groups while superpowering the DHS domestically



jeez, you see ONE black helicopter and alla sudden Alcoa has to ramp up production
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Thu May 23, 2013 22:37:20

Ted Cruz is asscancer with lips
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu May 23, 2013 22:37:48

drsmooth wrote:
karn wrote:Changing nature = de-emphasizing Muslim and Islamist groups while superpowering the DHS domestically



jeez, you see ONE black helicopter and alla sudden Alcoa has to ramp up production

literal lol
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu May 23, 2013 23:06:08

At this point aren't the administration's choices basically Holder resigning or assigning an independent counsel to the case? The current situation is untenable.

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby pacino » Thu May 23, 2013 23:08:13

nah, id rather fire holder (instead of fake resigning) and put someone in there that knows what the hell to actually do
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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri May 24, 2013 01:53:50

Angela Merkel faces new anti-establishment party

Pretty sure I'd vote for this party if I were German having read nothing about it but this article

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Fri May 24, 2013 07:00:36

A great piece that sets out clear points of why we should be skeptical of Obama's speech. I'm on my tablet, so sorry no cutting and pasting the high points, but the points about "imminence" and the fact that Obama could end AUMF himself are pretty important IMO.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/a-skeptical-celebration-of-president-obamas-shifty-terrorism-speech/276205/

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Re: Arugments and Sensitivity Training Regarding POLITICS

Postby drsmooth » Fri May 24, 2013 07:51:14

Werthless wrote:I hope he follows through.

He "signaled" that he "planned" to wind down the strikes. "Vows" to close Guantanamo. "Troubled" by the chilling effect of anti-whistleblower actions in his DOJ. Forgive me if I'm suspicious when he talks about executing things that he's been promising for years.


hedging his bets, dissembling, doublespeaking - you'd think the guy was a politician, rather than SuperNegro

but then imagine, say, George Bush - or even funnier, Mitt Romney or (side-splittingly) Rand Paul, trying to conceive of, let alone delivering, a speech like that
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