The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:37:28

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:This. It's the same reason the polls weren't oversampling Democrats, as we were told by Fox News. The problem is that conservatives were identifying as Independents out of frustration with the Republican Party but were still going to vote Republican b/c there was no other realistic option.


It does seem that the answer to "What went wrong for Republicans?" is a simple one: presented with the possibility that the electorate was getting younger, more secular, and less white, they tried their damndest to MAKE it be what they wanted it to be - older and whiter (through ID laws, etc.), instead of trying to broaden their appeal to some of these new demographics. I don't want to go too apocalyptic, because things change (and fast) quite often, but it seems to me that this was potentially a MAJOR strategic mistake, because the Republicans have risked alienating the fastest-growing segments of the population. If they have not yet irrevocably done so, they should consider changing their tune for 2016 (I think the off-year elections will continue to afford them the possibility of appealing to a smaller, older, whiter electorate, because that is likely what they are going to face), because very time they opt for trying to make the square peg fit the round hole, they take a bigger risk that they are permanently alienating a bigger and bigger swathe of the electorate.

In particular, I was surprised to learn that Republicans had lost among Asian voters by so much this time around; I would think that this would be a place where they could make up significant ground, and fast (I think the damage they've done to themselves with respect to Latinos will take longer to turn around).
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby gr » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:40:30

Doll Is Mine wrote:Chris Matthews was delirious from exhaustion at 3AM. The guy said something stupid and he sincerely apologized for it the very next day. It's a non-issue.


Matthews is always saying stupid things, regardless of the hour.
"You practicing for the Hit Parade?"

gr
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12914
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 15:15:05
Location: DC

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby drsmooth » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:44:20

Werthless wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:Or he's simply lying to make a point because he's angry. ffs, everybody

I don't think he's firing people to hurt his business, as pacino suggests.
I don't think his business is particularly profitable.
I think his business could barely support the 114 employees he had.
The ACA will affect his business adversely as it gets implemented.

While I'm not talking about swish, I don't understand why liberals assert that this law will not affect businesses. It will, and the whole point is that it's worth it. The law is saying that a business with 100 full-time employees without health coverage should pay $200,000 in annual fines. It's crazy to assume it won't affect anyone. People are free to judge those owners who decide to talk to the media about it, obviously. That's not my style, but he's probably been pissed about the effect it's going to have on his business, and was not looking forward to laying off his workers.


Paved roads hurt some businesses - not most, but some. The advent of clean drinking water disadvantaged some people - not most, but some.

I guess we're saying the same thing.

Again, the guy on the radio does not have a business to be hurt by ACA. Even if he has, it isn't being hurt by ACA now, and not for another year, if then.
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:45:16

On a different note, I am very much looking forward to President Obama being the Democrats' Reagan, or this generation's JFK - you know, the guy we can deify and invoke solemnly (and sanctimoniously) for at least 20 years after he retires. I think the Reagan thing has finally started to backlash on Republicans now (lots of the electorate never voted for him, barely remember him) and we'll be hearing a little bit less about him now (it's like when the Phillies decided - finally - to let the 1980 team be by declining to have a 25th anniversary celebration in 2005, because it was 'time to move on' and make some CURRENT good times). But we should get a solid 24 years in of annoying Republicans by invoking the awesomeness of Obama if the President can keep his nose basically clean (an Iran-Contra is OK, but no sex stuff - it's what puts the damper on invoking Clinton the way the Republicans invoke Reagan) and the economy has a solid 4 years, which I am totally expecting based only on the natural ebb-and-flow of the business cycle.
Last edited by Wolfgang622 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:50:07, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby bleh » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:45:31

TenuredVulture wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:
ek wrote:forgive me as i don't know who this is (maddow) but she is clearly bias and that's really pretty crappy. news channels like msnbc and cnn and fox should not pander to a certain party. but i know they do. i just don't like it.


Rachel Maddow doesn't pretend to be anything but a liberal who roots for Democrats. She is however fair and will criticize Democrats if she disagrees with them, which she has done with Obama on occasion.


The real difference is that Rush and co secretly root for Democratic victories, because losing elections drives more and more Republicans to watch Rush and buy the shit he hawks. And his commentary is clearly intended to piss off independents and drive them to the Dems. Otherwise, how else do you explain things like calling Sandra Fluke a slut and a whore? It's clearly done to hurt Republicans.

I don't buy that at all. Saying controversial things gets ratings, I don't see why it needs to go deeper than that. And the guy clearly has a big ego. so I'm sure he'd like nothing more than for Romney to win and for him to take credit for it since he's been promoting him for the whole year. And if he was really calculating he wouldn't have made the Sandra Fluke comment at all since it caused him to lose half his advertisers.

bleh
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 10603
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 14:06:21

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:51:17

mozartpc27 wrote:I think the off-year elections will continue to afford them the possibility of appealing to a smaller, older, whiter electorate, because that is likely what they are going to face

I agree with your post, but I think this point is going to be what kills them in 2016. We know that off-year and midterm elections tend to skew older and whiter. I suspect that the upcoming elections (2013 in a few states like VA, but mostly the national 2014 races) will allow the social conservatives and Tea Party types to perpetuate the myth that 2008 and 2012 were flukes and do not indicate greater trends. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the GOP make gains in the House in 2014 for very similar reasons that they did in 2010. I think it'll take at least one more national repudiation in 2016 before the RNC will finally start to get the message.

Of course, so much of that depends on who the RNC and DNC grooms for the 2016 run. Marco Rubio being the nominee obviously would change the analysis.

RichmondPhilsFan
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 9738
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:49:07
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:56:24

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:I think the off-year elections will continue to afford them the possibility of appealing to a smaller, older, whiter electorate, because that is likely what they are going to face

I agree with your post, but I think this point is going to be what kills them in 2016. We know that off-year and midterm elections tend to skew older and whiter. I suspect that the upcoming elections (2013 in a few states like VA, but mostly the national 2014 races) will allow the social conservatives and Tea Party types to perpetuate the myth that 2008 and 2012 were flukes and do not indicate greater trends. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the GOP make gains in the House in 2014 for very similar reasons that they did in 2010. I think it'll take at least one more national repudiation in 2016 before the RNC will finally start to get the message.

Of course, so much of that depends on who the RNC and DNC grooms for the 2016 run. Marco Rubio being the nominee obviously would change the analysis.


I could definitely see it going as you suggest: in 2014, with the electorate smaller, older, and whiter, but the people who were MOST motivated this time - older, white Republicans - continuine to be the most engaged. Their anger leads to a congressional election event similar to 2010, Rs take back the Senate and expand in the House, Conservative wing emboldened, this time they win the argument that what the Republicans REALLY needed to do was run a REAL conservative, they nominate someone like Santorum (but not Santorum because, I mean, c'mon), and that's how we finally get a real liberal elected in 2016 - Elizabeth Warren!!!!!

Oh sign me up!
Last edited by Wolfgang622 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:56:56, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Werthless » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:56:35

I'm pretty excited for a 2016 primary debate featuring Chris Christie. Stomp out the stupid.

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby pacino » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:57:59

i don't really know if it would that much. being a latino is not the same as appealing to latinos. and which latinos? so they'll definitely take florida. but i don't see any differences in his ideas than any other republican on the landscape. he voted against the DREAM act, for example.

i dont think being religious automatically means you're conservative, either. catholics went 50/50, again. non-christians were for obama. non-religious were for obama as well, but obama still took 40% of protestants. that's not nothing.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:59:03

Werthless wrote:I'm pretty excited for a 2016 primary debate featuring Chris Christie. Stomp out the stupid.


I would be excited by that as well. I think it will be a tight contest between him and Scott Walker actually, but it'll be Walker's to lose. Walker would make the Republicans competitive in WI, IA, and possibly even OH (though the collective bargaining thing he tried to do in WI was attempted by OH's governor, was then put as a direct referendum on the ballot by angry people, and lost handily, so I don't know). If Walker can be smart on immigration, he is to me an early favorite.
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby pacino » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:00:13

mozartpc27 wrote:
Werthless wrote:I'm pretty excited for a 2016 primary debate featuring Chris Christie. Stomp out the stupid.


I would be excited by that as well. I think it will be a tight contest between him and Scott Walker actually, but it'll be Walker's to lose. Walker would make the Republicans competitive in WI, IA, and possibly even OH (though the collective bargaining thing he tried to do in WI was attempted by OH's governor, was then put as a direct referendum on the ballot by angry people, and lost handily, so I don't know). If Walker can be smart on immigration, he is to me an early favorite.

to me, scott walker is incredibly unlikeable. i couldn't imagine him being their nominee.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:03:21

pacino wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:
Werthless wrote:I'm pretty excited for a 2016 primary debate featuring Chris Christie. Stomp out the stupid.


I would be excited by that as well. I think it will be a tight contest between him and Scott Walker actually, but it'll be Walker's to lose. Walker would make the Republicans competitive in WI, IA, and possibly even OH (though the collective bargaining thing he tried to do in WI was attempted by OH's governor, was then put as a direct referendum on the ballot by angry people, and lost handily, so I don't know). If Walker can be smart on immigration, he is to me an early favorite.

to me, scott walker is incredibly unlikeable. i couldn't imagine him being their nominee.


I hate the motherfucker but he's won two statewide elections, handily, in a place that to all appearances is pretty blue right now.
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:10:03

Is this true? Is it required by election law?

Rene G.‏@rcg99

Wow. Romney's staffers' credit cards were cancelled after his concession speech and couldn't be used to pay cab fare for ride home.

RichmondPhilsFan
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 9738
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:49:07
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:11:34

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Is this true? Is it required by election law?

Rene G.‏@rcg99

Wow. Romney's staffers' credit cards were cancelled after his concession speech and couldn't be used to pay cab fare for ride home.


This is the second place I've read this. Front page article on MSNBC has it. "Fiscal conservatism" a quoted aide sighed. Haha.
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby pacino » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:18:32

Next 4 years ...

- Islamic flag over the White House

- Obamacare surpasses Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in contributing to our National Debt

- $7.00 gallon gas or more ... Maybe even NO gas Hurricane Sandy style

- 60 to 70% of Americans getting welfare

- 20% actual unemployment ... Closer to 35% factoring in U6

someone i just defriended

he is college-educated....doesnt say much for the business school at SJU
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby phdave » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:21:19

The end of liberty in America: Only course of action now is to fight back, electoral politics not working

Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt.
I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted 'O'. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats.
Do you work for someone who voted for Obama? Quit your job. Co-workers who voted for Obama. Simply don't talk to them in the workplace, unless your boss instructs you too for work-related only purposes. Have clients who voted Democrat? Call them up this morning and tell them to take their business elsewhere.
Have a neighbor who votes for Obama? You could take a crap on their lawn. Then again, probably not a good idea since it would be technically illegal to do this. But you could have your dog take care of business. Not your fault if he just happens to choose that particular spot.
And start your boycott of your Democrat friends and family today. Like this morning. First thing you can do, very easy, is to un-friend all Democrats from your Facebook account.
The Phillies: People trading People to People.

phdave
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 11601
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 21:25:57
Location: Ylvania

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby pacino » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:23:35

he also wants to boycott places that accept EBT. prepare to not eat, then. SNAP is basically a way to boost grocery store business.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby CalvinBall » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:26:12

you might want to make that group private. your post in it showed up on my newsfeed.

CalvinBall
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 64951
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 15:30:02
Location: Pigslyvania

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:26:20

phdave wrote:The end of liberty in America: Only course of action now is to fight back, electoral politics not working

Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt.
I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted 'O'. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats.
Do you work for someone who voted for Obama? Quit your job. Co-workers who voted for Obama. Simply don't talk to them in the workplace, unless your boss instructs you too for work-related only purposes. Have clients who voted Democrat? Call them up this morning and tell them to take their business elsewhere.
Have a neighbor who votes for Obama? You could take a crap on their lawn. Then again, probably not a good idea since it would be technically illegal to do this. But you could have your dog take care of business. Not your fault if he just happens to choose that particular spot.
And start your boycott of your Democrat friends and family today. Like this morning. First thing you can do, very easy, is to un-friend all Democrats from your Facebook account.

There's something deeply wrong with people who can't be friends with people who have different political views.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Re: The Fiscal Cliff: Politics, Not Lee

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:27:20

Houshphandzadeh wrote:not sure if posted already but some dick in Vegas used the election as a reason to fire people

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07 ... employees/

Dollars to donuts, this guy sports a pinky ring.

Dollars to donuts II, this guy doesn't insure his workers.

Dollars to donuts III, it's likely BS.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Phan In Phlorida
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12571
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 03:51:57
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue

PreviousNext