Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Monkeyboy » Tue May 22, 2012 09:34:48

jeff2sf wrote:Stop it. Booker was trying to be honest - attacking Romney and private equity is a loser statement meant to divide us. We need private equity. We do. We need banks like JP Morgan. Should they be better regulated? Yes. Should they be quite as obscenely paid? No.

But Booker was right and he's pretty great. We need more politicians like him, not fewer.



But isn't better regulation and less obscene pay what Obama wants? Those are what I am hearing from him. I haven't heard him say "Let's get rid of private equity." I HAVE heard him say that they are out of control, both in terms of actions (regulation would help) and pay. It seemed like Booker was ignoring what Obama has actually said and was using a GOP talking point.

Or maybe I missed something.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jeff2sf » Tue May 22, 2012 09:39:26

Booker wrote:"This kind of stuff is nauseating to me on both sides. It's nauseating to the American public. Enough is enough. Stop attacking private equity. Stop attacking Jeremiah Wright. This stuff has got to stop, because what it does is it undermines, to me, what this country should be focused on."



There's no need to talk about Romney at Bain at all (Except maybe that dumb ass picture of him holding a bunch of money with some partners.) Romney made a lot of money for himself and helped a lot of companies. Some companies went out of business, but that's capitalism folks. That's what happens. You're not guaranteed your job forever. Evolve or die.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby drsmooth » Tue May 22, 2012 10:35:12

jeff2sf wrote:
Booker wrote:"This kind of stuff is nauseating to me on both sides. It's nauseating to the American public. Enough is enough. Stop attacking private equity. Stop attacking Jeremiah Wright. This stuff has got to stop, because what it does is it undermines, to me, what this country should be focused on."



There's no need to talk about Romney at Bain at all (Except maybe that dumb ass picture of him holding a bunch of money with some partners.) Romney made a lot of money for himself and helped a lot of companies. Some companies went out of business, but that's capitalism folks. That's what happens. You're not guaranteed your job forever. Evolve or die.


Booker bungled his attempt to kiss banker ass without cleaving his alignment with team Obama. It's not the end of the world, but his effort was startlingly clumsy.

Romney himself has said his Bain bona fides qualify him to be President. Oh really? Explain that. In detail. Perfectly fair line of inquiry. And much much different than "an attack on private equity", which, let's face it, about 1% of the electorate has a working definition of anyway.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jeff2sf » Tue May 22, 2012 13:27:43

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby RichmondPhilsFan » Tue May 22, 2012 14:59:25

jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

Interesting piece, good link.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 22, 2012 15:43:21

jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

That he incorrectly attributes god like powers to the person inhabiting the White House for the performance of the country's economy.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jeff2sf » Tue May 22, 2012 15:51:56

So you're saying the good effects that resulted from X policies were mostly coincidence? I can dig that. But why rank economic philosophy so highly if it doesn't impact anything?
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby td11 » Tue May 22, 2012 16:28:54

jerseyhoya wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

That he incorrectly attributes god like powers to the person inhabiting the White House for the performance of the country's economy.


can't read the article at work, but is the gist of your analysis that clinton shouldn't get credit for the robust economy in his time, bush shouldn't take the blame for the crash/recession, and that obama's policies haven't had much effect on the recovery?
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 22, 2012 19:29:16

I think presidents are a lot like head coaches when it comes to the economy. They can affect things to some extent, but they're constrained in how much they can do, and they get too much credit when things go well and too much criticism when things go poorly.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby dajafi » Tue May 22, 2012 20:44:17

jerseyhoya wrote:I think presidents are a lot like head coaches when it comes to the economy. They can affect things to some extent, but they're constrained in how much they can do, and they get too much credit when things go well and too much criticism when things go poorly.


Fair enough, but Bartlett's argument essentially is that the Republicans throw the deep route on every single play, regardless of the opponent or game situation. If you match his numbers to aggregate economic and employment growth figures since 1960, the results are pretty clear that more people tend to do better under the Democrats. Some of that is context or lucky timing, but it's a stretch to ascribe all of it that way.

Then again, I don't perceive the Republicans as even really arguing anymore that upper-income tax cuts will spark growth--more that the wealthy deserve to keep what they have and/or will take all their jobly goodness elsewhere ("Go Galt"?) if we don't show them the, um, money. The non-rich are basically parasites in this view, and there's a certain appeal to kicking those already down. Hence the Ryan budget.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby pacino » Wed May 23, 2012 16:17:23

i love joe biden. he's such an eloquent speaker when he sticks to what he's good at like foreign policy and relating with and understanding the poor and middle class, the latter wayyyy moreso than the president.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed May 23, 2012 16:38:06

jerseyhoya wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

That he incorrectly attributes god like powers to the person inhabiting the White House for the performance of the country's economy.

I didn't take it to mean that so much as that he was rebutting a notion that has become gospel among conservatives over the past 12 years. He wasn't proving something... he was showing how the exact opposite is what happened in real life.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Werthless » Thu May 24, 2012 11:52:06

jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

The Bush presidency was a fiscal failure. It's not surprising that Romney is distancing himself from it.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby momadance » Thu May 24, 2012 12:32:31

Jay Carney is in way over his head. He's about a thousand notches below Robert Gibbs.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby dajafi » Thu May 24, 2012 12:45:58

It's probably true of most campaigns to some extent, but Romney's arguments seem particularly dependent upon voter inattention or outright ignorance. The biggest examples have to do with the assertion that spending and taxes have risen under Obama (the former is arguable if you twist numbers a certain way, but with much smaller increases than under Bush; the latter is flat-out incorrect), but another fun one is on education. The NYT happily breaks from the usual practice of journalistic stenography to call some BS:

Mr. Romney said that the failure of so many American schools with minority students “is the civil rights issue of our era,” echoing a mantra of the school choice movement. “It’s the great challenge of our time.”

The challenge for Mr. Romney is that many of the ideas he touched on — increasing the number of charter schools, holding teachers more accountable for student success — have already been adopted by the Obama administration, whose education policies have all but co-opted traditional Republican positions.

In response to Mr. Romney’s proposals, the Obama campaign released a compilation of Republican governors’ past praise for the president’s education policies, including comments from Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey and Gov. Susana Martinez of New Mexico.
...
He also promised to break logjams that still hold up reforms by taking on teachers’ unions, which he called “the clearest example of a group that has lost its way.” He accused Mr. Obama of quavering before the unions because of their power within the Democratic Party. “President Obama has been unable to stand up to union bosses — and unwilling to stand up for our kids,” he said.

In fact, Mr. Obama has crossed teachers’ unions, notably in 2010 when he praised a mass firing of teachers in Rhode Island in a showdown over an administration policy to radically overhaul failing high-poverty schools.

In a policy paper released on Wednesday, the Romney campaign called for the elimination of such federal intervention.

James Kvaal, policy director for Mr. Obama’s campaign, accused Mr. Romney of wanting “to stop the clock on decades of reform by no longer insisting action be taken” to reform struggling schools.

In place of overhauling failing schools, which can include replacement of the staff or conversion to a charter school, Mr. Romney would substitute a “public report card,” one exposing a school’s failures so that parents, presumably, could steer clear. It is uncertain how that proposal differs from existing report cards now required under the No Child Left Behind law enacted under President Bush.


I've long believed that Republicans could outflank Democrats on education reform and score big among middle-class moderates, basically by embracing everything Michelle Rhee and Joel Klein like (attn pacino and monkeyboy: I'm not saying that the Rhee/Klein agenda is or isn't good policy, but I think it's damn good politics)--but doing so probably would require a willingness to talk about higher spending to support better outcomes for children of constituencies that Republicans don't get votes from and tend to disdain (non-white poor people), as well as accepting an increased federal role in education. Romney goes about a quarter of the way there in the rhetoric, but holding up "school choice" as the sole answer is a non-starter to anyone who knows the least bit about this area of policy.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby drsmooth » Thu May 24, 2012 12:51:14

Werthless wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

The Bush presidency was a fiscal failure. It's not surprising that Romney is distancing himself from it.


Nor surprising that he wants people to believe he's every bit the jobs-creation wizard that that never-a-captain-of-industry, always-a-politician Bill Clinton was. Or peanut farmer-politician Jimmy Carter. Or soap flakes frontman-B-movie actor Ronnie Raygunz.

"But never mind that history utterly contradicts my assertions about why I have special jobs-creation competence - free markets!"
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby td11 » Thu May 24, 2012 14:29:12

i refuse to wade into the economics thread because it is way over my head, so here:

Senate Banking Investigation of JPMorgan to be Headed by Former JPMorgan Lobbyist
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby thephan » Thu May 24, 2012 17:11:05

Euro to dollar 1:1.26. Awesome news. About time that the crisis shake the euro down. Let's see what more Greek stupidity yeilds.

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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby The Nightman Cometh » Thu May 24, 2012 17:33:20

The idiocy is staying in the Euro. Greece needs to drop out and default. Those "loans" are going to cripple their economy more than anything.
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Re: Is It November Yet? Politics Thread

Unread postby Phan In Phlorida » Thu May 24, 2012 17:57:33

Werthless wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:Werthless and Jhoya, what say you?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... f=business

The Bush presidency was a fiscal failure. It's not surprising that Romney is distancing himself from it.

But is he fer realz? Around 3/4ths of Team Mittens were former Bush/Cheney staffers and his "day one" campain ad beats the "wealthy are job creators" drumbeat.

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