Politics: Homo abortionists vs the born again gun nuts

Postby dajafi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:26:37

TenuredVulture wrote:The overheatedness of American political discourse (and it's not like many on the left didn't believe that Bush was going to stage another terrorist attack and declare martial law) is perhaps the most disturbing political development of the last 15 years.


"Many on the left," for sure. Democratic Senators? Not so much.

Though it frustrated the hell out of the activists in places like DailyKos, there was a real and appropriate gap between the rabid lefty base and even the most liberal Senators like Feingold and Bernie Sanders. (I'll grant that the Democratic House caucus had some psychos; that's how they roll in the House.) But I get the sense that guys like DeMint and Inhofe almost are playing "can you top this?" with the Hannitys and Hewitts of the world.

Maybe they feel like they have to go that route, which is probably the scariest prospect for all of us who want to see the Republicans act like grownups interested in governing again.

TenuredVulture wrote:The left really didn't mount much of a defense of civil liberties, they attacked Bush.


Maybe they knew that "their" president would be just as bad, if not worse.

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Postby Werthless » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:31:07

Here's a Newsweek column(yes, Newsweek) about how some pointed criticisms that may have seemed inaccurate at the time, may now appear prescient. I can't help but think of the DeMint criticism, which seems out of place now. But if we get 20 years of bumbling continuity, his criticisms may seem more accurate. His whole "11th hour" stuff is silly, but we really don't know how the US political scene, and accepted realities, will change in the coming decades.

A few months ago, I listened to a tape that I got out of the local library that was a collection of presidential political speeches of the 20th century presidents. And it was simply amazing to hear the speeches that roused the people. Protectionism, obviously, was a popular theme throughout some of the older Democratic speeches. But I distinctly remember being struck by how out of place FDR's rhetoric would appear in today's landscape. Granted, his speeches are 70 years old.

My greater point is that what may be considered an unusual criticism now may be more on point in 20 years.

During the 1980 Republican convention, he wrote a column for The Washington Post describing the delegates as members of the "booboisie" once mocked by H. L. Mencken, by which Fairlie meant they were: "Narrow minded, book banning, truth censoring, mean spirited; ungenerous, envious, intolerant, afraid; chicken, bullying; trivially moral, falsely patriotic; family cheapening, flag cheapening, God cheapening; the common man, shallow, small, sanctimonious." William F. Buckley replied with a column attacking Fairlie for being an English interloper, a bad grammarian and a snob. When Buckley included the column in an essay collection five years later, Fairlie panned the book in The New Republic, dissing Buckley as unconservative, overexposed and "the quintessential Common Man of our time." This so incensed Buckley that he bought a full-page ad in a subsequent issue of the magazine to reprint his original attack on Fairlie.

When I first read Fairlie's column about the convention, it seemed overheated. Then I watched Sarah Palin speak. Fairlie's disgust at the GOP's impulse toward small-minded demagoguery anticipated the day when it would reach its fullest expression—when the movement would have no farther to fall.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:34:20

How could WFB be unconservative? Isn't that like calling the pope unCatholic?

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Postby Werthless » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:36:06

Probably for supporting Reagan's brand of conservativism, although without reading the primary sources mentioned, I don't know. It would be like calling the Pope un-Christian-like for supporting X policy or candidate.
Last edited by Werthless on Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:37:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:37:12

So we landed Mark Kirk in Illinois and Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire to run for Senate. On top of that we're having some successes on the House level, getting Pearce to run for his old seat in NM, among others that I can't think of off the top of my head right now. The party might still be unpopular, but polling numbers must be turning, because we haven't had a run of recruiting like this since 2004, or maybe even 2002.

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Postby dajafi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:42:24

I can't help but think of the DeMint criticism, which seems out of place now. But if we get 20 years of bumbling continuity, his criticisms may seem more accurate.


DeMint's "criticism" is incoherent, though. He fundamentally misreads what happened in Germany in the 1920s, as well as the decades of back-story that teed up the decisive sequence between about 1928 and 1933. We're not coming out of a war in which we were defeated (but didn't think we were *really* defeated) and forced to pay huge reparations as a result, or transitioning from a centralized imperial regime to a weak federalized governance structure.

Without a doubt, there are criticisms to be made and concerns to be had about the ends and means sought and utilized by the Obama administration and Congress. But the uninformed and hyperbolic views of an evident moron like DeMint don't really add to the discussion.

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Postby Werthless » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:46:52

Yeah, I don't endorse DeMint's particular criticism and historical comparison. It was more of a general point about political attitudes, and segue into the article I wanted to post.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jul 09, 2009 14:30:34

dajafi wrote:"Many on the left," for sure. Democratic Senators? Not so much.



I suppose.

But the larger point, the way in which hysterical charges replace real debate I think stands.
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Postby dajafi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 15:35:25

My state sucks:

Senate Democrats in Albany Trying to Win Back Defector

...later on Thursday, news emerged suggesting that the senators could be working toward a solution of their own, with Mr. Espada, whose defection plunged Albany into chaos on June 8, apparently mulling a return to the Democratic fold. This would give his party a 32-to-30 majority.

As part of the deal being worked out, Senator John L. Sampson of Brooklyn, leader of the Democratic caucus, would be Senate president, according to people briefed on the negotiations. It was not clear how power would be divided between the men, or if such a deal would be supported by the entire caucus. Hiram Monserrate, a Democratic senator who initially sided with Republicans in the June 8 coup, is leading the negotiations, according to those who had been briefed.

It increasingly appeared on Thursday afternoon that a deal was at hand. Steve Pigeon, a top aide to billionaire Tom Golisano, left Mr. Espada’s office saying little. Mr. Pigeon, who helped orchestrate the coup along with Mr. Golisano, then huddled with a top Senate Republican, George Maziarz, on a stairway near Mr. Espada’s office.

After the conversation, Mr. Maziarz was speaking as if a deal was a fait accompli. Asked if he was disappointed, he said he was not, and said he understood that the rules and reforms Republicans had pushed through last month would still stand.


Much as I loathe him, I increasingly can see myself voting for Giuliani next year. Those scumbags in the state legislature deserve a psychopath authoritarian making their lives miserable every single day.

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Postby dajafi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 16:02:00

Your daily dose of crazy:

To me, one of the most interesting aspects of the story is how vehemently the Palin camp blames Barack Obama.

From the story:

For Palin, however, these aren't isolated incidents. She believes they grow from the same root, which is too big and too formidable to ignore. "A lot of this comes from Washington, D.C. The trail is pretty direct and pretty obvious to us," says Meg Stapleton, a close Palin adviser in Alaska. Awaiting a flight back to Anchorage from distant Dillingham, Stapleton adds that the anti-Palin offensive seems lifted straight from The Thumpin', which describes the political strategies of Rahm Emanuel, who is now the White House chief of staff. "It's the Sarah Palin playbook. It's how they operate," Stapleton says.

Palin and her Alaska circle find evidence for their suspicions about the White House in the person of Pete Rouse, who lived in Juneau for a time before he became chief of staff to a young U.S. Senator named Barack Obama. Rouse, they note, is a friend of former Alaska state senator Kim Elton, who pushed the first ethics investigation of Palin, examining her controversial firing of the state's public-safety commissioner. Both Rouse and Elton have joined the Obama Administration. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs scoffed at the theory. "The charge is ridiculous," he said. "Obviously there is no effort ... From my vantage point, a lot of the criticism she is getting from others seems to be generated from self-inflicted wounds.


Meg went a step further at one point telling me, "I just hope to God Rahm Emanuel isn't using taxpayer money to come after Alaska." That's the way they think about it: that these Alaskans filing ethics complaints have been hoodwinked by Obama operatives into wasting the Alaskan government's time and resources. They believe that with Palin gone, the state will no longer face this barrage of "frivolous" compliants. On that point, they are probably right -- there will be much less interest in filing complaints against Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell. Palin, Meg said, was their target all along because she "represents the biggest threat to Obama. She's the only one who can get the base excited."


It's always about Palin, yet never her fault--even before you get into the essential unseriousness of the "ethics complaints" canard. This is delusion on top of delusion.

Also: "the Sarah Palin playbook"? Given the lady's track record of smiting enemies real and perceived, this seems pretty much a textbook Freudian slip.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Jul 10, 2009 00:16:59

So there's an article on nj.com talking about how Christie doesn't want Palin in NJ for the gov race. No shit, I think. I continue reading...Michael Steele said Palin "will very helpful to the party this year as we wage critical campaigns in Virginia and New Jersey."

I mean really.

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Postby Werthless » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:10:22

Someone inform Steele that tanking for a #1 pick usually doesn't work.

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Postby Woody » Fri Jul 10, 2009 16:03:12

Image
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Jul 10, 2009 16:39:27

Ban on tobacco urged for military

First thought that came into my mind... do we really want the people with the guns and bombs and missiles to be going through nicotine withdrawl?
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

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Postby Werthless » Fri Jul 10, 2009 17:06:18

Yes, prohibition always works splendidly.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Jul 10, 2009 18:16:47

I'm thinking maybe instead of Red State, I should go to Townhall for my right wing perspective. Redstate posters seem pretty unhinged these days.
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Postby drsmooth » Fri Jul 10, 2009 18:28:34

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Ban on tobacco urged for military

First thought that came into my mind... do we really want the people with the guns and bombs and missiles to be going through nicotine withdrawl?


pic accompanying the story made me laff for some reason:

Image
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Postby pacino » Sat Jul 11, 2009 17:30:30

Malia Obama wore a peace-sign t-shirt, a fairly popular shirt. Over at Free Republic, the response was calm and restrained.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Postby pacino » Sun Jul 12, 2009 00:25:41

Actually sat down and read the VF article on Palin today. I laughed at this:

Yet Palin herself cut corners. Ruedrich, Palin’s target on the Conservation Commission, was forced to resign, but in 2006, as Palin was beginning her campaign for governor, a conservative columnist dug up e-mail messages showing that she too had conducted campaign business from her mayoral office. Confronted by the columnist, Palin acknowledged that she had erred. Then she turned around and issued a press release, demanding to know why the columnist was publishing smears.

brass balls

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Postby kopphanatic » Sun Jul 12, 2009 16:54:10

On the one hand I would love to see Palin somehow make it to the general election season in 2012, either as the GOP nominee or at the head of a splinter group, because it would finally expose the insanity of that wing of the Republican Party. She would be crushed in the fall after the American public finally saw how dangerous and utterly insane that kind of ideology is, combining a proto-Fascist view of economics with an extremely repressive Evangelical social policy. After her defeat, the moderate and sane voices in the GOP that have been shut out for 30 years would finally reassert themselves and provide the necessary balance that has been missing in our politics. But on the other hand, I really want to see her disappear from the national stage and do not want her coming anywhere close to the White House. I despised Bush, but Palin would be indescribably worse. I'm not exaggerating when I say that a Palin presidency would mean the end of the republic, either by a full-scale nuclear war that she would start or the complete takeover of far far right wingers who would scrap the Constitution in favor of a dictatorship.
You're the conductor Ruben. Time to blow the whistle!

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