Obama Happyworld Politics Thread!

Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Nov 10, 2008 18:59:31

A Quiet Windfall For U.S. Banks



The guidance issued from the IRS caught even some of the closest followers of tax law off guard because it seemed to come out of the blue when Treasury's work seemed focused almost exclusively on the bailout.

"It was a shock to most of the tax law community. It was one of those things where it pops up on your screen and your jaw drops," said Candace A. Ridgway, a partner at Jones Day, a law firm that represents banks that could benefit from the notice. "I've been in tax law for 20 years, and I've never seen anything like this."

More than a dozen tax lawyers interviewed for this story -- including several representing banks that stand to reap billions from the change -- said the Treasury had no authority to issue the notice.

Several other tax lawyers, all of whom represent banks, said the change was legal. Like DeSouza, they said the legal authority came from Section 382 itself, which says the secretary can write regulations to "carry out the purposes of this section."

Section 382 of the tax code was created by Congress in 1986 to end what it considered an abuse of the tax system: companies sheltering their profits from taxation by acquiring shell companies whose only real value was the losses on their books. The firms would then use the acquired company's losses to offset their gains and avoid paying taxes.

Lawmakers decried the tax shelters as a scam and created a formula to strictly limit the use of those purchased losses for tax purposes.

But from the beginning, some conservative economists and Republican administration officials criticized the new law as unwieldy and unnecessary meddling by the government in the business world.

"This has never been a good economic policy," said Kenneth W. Gideon, an assistant Treasury secretary for tax policy under President George H.W. Bush and now a partner at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, a law firm that represents banks.

The opposition to Section 382 is part of a broader ideological battle over how the tax code deals with a company's losses. Some conservative economists argue that not only should a firm be able to use losses to offset gains, but that in a year when a company only loses money, it should be entitled to a cash refund from the government.

During the current Bush administration, senior officials considered ways to implement some version of the policy. A Treasury paper in December 2007 -- issued under the names of Eric Solomon, the top tax policy official in the department, and his deputy, Robert Carroll -- criticized limits on the use of losses and suggested that they be relaxed. A logical extension of that argument would be an overhaul of 382, according to Carroll, who left his position as deputy assistant secretary in the Treasury's office of tax policy earlier this year.

Yet lobbyists trying to modify the obscure section found that they could get no traction in Congress or with the Treasury.

"It's really been the third rail of tax policy to touch 382," said Kevin A. Hassett, director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute.
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Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Nov 10, 2008 19:06:22

I was talking to a guy at work who mentioned the deregulation coming in the energy industry. He didn't mention when it was supposed to happen, so I was wondering if you guys knew anything about it. Sometimes the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, so I'm not even sure he's right, but I do remember reading about it at some point. I'm wondering when it's supposed to happen and what effects it will have on energy prices, the economy, etc.

Anyone know what I'm talking about who can provide some guidance? It seems like something that could be a big deal considering how much of this deregulation has worked out (Enron and California come to mind). Someone educate me, please.
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Postby pacino » Mon Nov 10, 2008 19:17:47

does he mean the rate caps?
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Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 10, 2008 19:50:44



numerous people will insist if you ask them that capitalism has to do with striving for profits from doing or making things

tut tut, I say - tut tut
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Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:16:29

pacino wrote:does he mean the rate caps?



I'm not sure. I didn't have a chance to ask for too many details. So maybe.
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Postby Marion » Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:17:55

Ah, Tivo...where McCain/Palins dreams live on

Catching up on some Tivo backlog and am none too happy to relive campaigning all over again
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Postby Philly the Kid » Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:19:49

Marion wrote:Ah, Tivo...where McCain/Palins dreams live on

Catching up on some Tivo backlog and am none too happy to relive campaigning all over again


is it comedy or drama ?

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Postby Werthless » Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:47:20

drsmooth wrote:


numerous people will insist if you ask them that capitalism has to do with striving for profits from doing or making things

tut tut, I say - tut tut

The article linked has nothing to do with capitalism, my friend. 8-)

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Postby Bakestar » Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:56:38

Philly the Kid wrote:
Marion wrote:Ah, Tivo...where McCain/Palins dreams live on

Catching up on some Tivo backlog and am none too happy to relive campaigning all over again


is it comedy or drama ?


pr0n
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Postby steagles » Tue Nov 11, 2008 00:10:08

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUDeAWr0oQE[/youtube]

it's been 6 days, and i'm still pissed about this. i think there are mormans who need to lose their assholes over this.

buckwheats and anal pears for all. seriously.
if you don't know what the wrestlers are trying to do--how certain moves and holds are supposed to work and so forth, then it might just look like too sweaty guys rolling around on a mat.

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Postby Trent Steele » Tue Nov 11, 2008 09:04:17

Bakestar wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:
Marion wrote:Ah, Tivo...where McCain/Palins dreams live on

Catching up on some Tivo backlog and am none too happy to relive campaigning all over again


is it comedy or drama ?


pr0n


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Postby drsmooth » Tue Nov 11, 2008 09:51:33

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:


numerous people will insist if you ask them that capitalism has to do with striving for profits from doing or making things

tut tut, I say - tut tut

The article linked has nothing to do with capitalism, my friend. 8-)


not in the straitened fashion you conceive of it, no
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Postby dajafi » Tue Nov 11, 2008 14:50:32

Sounds like it really is Gingrich vs. Steele for RNC chair. Interesting choice for the Republicans: a guy who's obviously bright (and not in the Sarah Palin only-TP-sees-it! sense either) but very polarizing and a little tarnished, or a guy who symbolically might represent a neat counter to Obama.

Even more intriguing is that they're both probably (Newt for sure, not certain about Steele) on the "Reformer" side of the internecine battle among the Republicans that Brooks writes about today. That's a pretty great thing.

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Postby The Red Tornado » Tue Nov 11, 2008 17:09:49

Secret service code names for Obama and etal. have been revealed-


Barack- Renegade

Michelle- Renaissance

Malia- Radiance

Sasha- Rosebud

Joe- Celtic

Jill- Capri
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Postby dajafi » Tue Nov 11, 2008 17:30:37

Celtic? WTF? I assume Joe's a Sixers fan; he should be pissed.

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Postby Werthless » Tue Nov 11, 2008 17:32:12

I wonder if they pronounce it Keltic.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Nov 11, 2008 18:25:07

Barack and Michelle have like the coolest Secret Service names ever.

According to Wikipedia, W's code name was Tumbler. I'd be so pissed if I were him. I guess they like all the code names for the first family to start with the same letter, but it isn't as if there aren't lots of words that start with the letter T.

Jimmy Carter was Lock Master. WTF?
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Postby VoxOrion » Tue Nov 11, 2008 18:39:48

TenuredVulture wrote:Barack and Michelle have like the coolest Secret Service names ever.

According to Wikipedia, W's code name was Tumbler. I'd be so pissed if I were him. I guess they like all the code names for the first family to start with the same letter, but it isn't as if there aren't lots of words that start with the letter T.

Jimmy Carter was Lock Master. WTF?


Carter and Gary Gygax go way back. Carter was an ODM.
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Postby Wizlah » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:53:48

wow. some pretty arresting photos Arkady Babchenko's photo-essay from the war in ossetia and georgia earlier this year. It's worth a look, but fair warning - some of these pictures may be hard to stomach.

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Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Nov 12, 2008 15:36:45

Wizlah wrote:wow. some pretty arresting photos Arkady Babchenko's photo-essay from the war in ossetia and georgia earlier this year. It's worth a look, but fair warning - some of these pictures may be hard to stomach.
]



You mean the war Scheunemann helped start? Go ahead and attack the Russians, we have your back. Honest.
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