This campaign isn't about the issues POLITICS THREAD

by **phdave** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:20:08

My congresswoman (a Dem) voted yes which makes me reflexively happy that it did not pass. I hate her.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:24:34

TenuredVulture wrote:
Over on Redstate, they're saying, "Nancy Pelosi didn't get this done and this shows she has no leadership" but I'm having a hard time figuring out how conservatives can capitalize on that.

If it benefits, it won't benefit McCain (I suspect he may even come out AGAINST the House Republicans) but it could look good for conservatives. So far (although that's not the storyline on tee vee yet) they're the ones responding for "the people" and saying "no".

I think some Democrats are going to have to come out and say "Hey, I didn't think it was right for America either" soon or the GOP will end up with the percieved culture win.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:25:53

I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the fuck up and pass this bill.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:26:56

jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

by **TenuredVulture** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:28:23

Of course, the major miscalculation was the way the plan was originally introduced--a 700 billion dollar bailout. It was hardly mentioned by the plan's champions that the finally cost was going to be much less than 700 billion, and might in fact make the treasury money.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:29:05

VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

by **CFP** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:29:16

My rep, Gerlach, voted no. Not really a surprise. He's running against Bob Roggio in a month and it's been identified as a possible close race. Which is really telling, because Chester County was about as Republican as you could get.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:29:42

jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:30:07

CFP wrote:My rep, Gerlach, voted no. Not really a surprise. He's running against Bob Roggio in a month and it's been identified as a possible close race. Which is really telling, because Chester County was about as Republican as you could get.

PA-06 has a Cook PVI of D +2.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:32:54

VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

People in tough races voted against it. The leadership realizes it's important and is willing to pass it even though it is unpopular. The spineless backbenchers and people who are overly ideological on both sides are the ones who killed the bill.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:34:46

I'm watching Pelosi's flamethrower of a speech before the vote. I wonder if she knew it was going to fail and figured she'd get her digs in, or if she's tone deaf enough to think she can go all Rambo and expect Republicans not to get defensive.

(I know I know it shouldn't be about politics etc I'm just looking at what happened)

by **TenuredVulture** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:35:01

jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

People in tough races voted against it. The leadership realizes it's important and is willing to pass it even though it is unpopular. The spineless backbenchers and people who are overly ideological on both sides are the ones who killed the bill.

Or, to put it another way--reps likely to be swayed by lobbyists and interest groups--for, reps listening to the people--against.

Where have the talk radio people been on this?

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:35:48

jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

People in tough races voted against it. The leadership realizes it's important and is willing to pass it even though it is unpopular. The spineless backbenchers and people who are overly ideological on both sides are the ones who killed the bill.

Funny, cause the story on Friday was the exact opposite.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:36:47

TenuredVulture wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

People in tough races voted against it. The leadership realizes it's important and is willing to pass it even though it is unpopular. The spineless backbenchers and people who are overly ideological on both sides are the ones who killed the bill.

Or, to put it another way--reps likely to be swayed by lobbyists and interest groups--for, reps listening to the people--against.

Where have the talk radio people been on this?

Against.

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:37:53

VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
VoxOrion wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:I hate to forsake my title as political hack, but seriously, these people need to grow the $#@! up and pass this bill.

Actually, this is starting to sound politically hack, too.

How?

Cause that's what politicians are saying.

People in tough races voted against it. The leadership realizes it's important and is willing to pass it even though it is unpopular. The spineless backbenchers and people who are overly ideological on both sides are the ones who killed the bill.

Funny, cause the story on Friday was the exact opposite.

What are you talking about?

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:40:51

People don't want this bill, enough that even Democrats are splitting with their party over it. That's not weakness, it's responding to your constituents. On Friday, the folks who were saying "Stop, slow down" were the good guys, if you trust that the congressional vote reflects the will of the people.

(again, never mind that people are stupid etc etc)

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:43:02

Bush is on, he's dissapointed.

How bizzaro-world is it that the Democrats are left on Bush's side on this one?

by **dajafi** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:44:02

VoxOrion wrote:I'm watching Pelosi's flamethrower of a speech before the vote. I wonder if she knew it was going to fail and figured she'd get her digs in, or if she's tone deaf enough to think she can go all Rambo and expect Republicans not to get defensive.

(I know I know it shouldn't be about politics etc I'm just looking at what happened)

Yeah, this is brutally harsh stuff. Singe your hair right off. I've copied the most inflammatory parts below, but the whole thing is here:

Madam Speaker, when was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion? It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush Administration's failed economic policies -- policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system. Democrats believe in the free market, which can and does create jobs, wealth, and capital, but left to its own devices it has created chaos.
...
Let us be clear: This is a crisis caused on Wall Street. But it is a crisis that reaches to Main Street in every city and town of the United States.
...
Over the past several days, we have worked with our Republican colleagues to fashion an alternative to the original plan of the Bush Administration.
...
Democrats insisted that legislation responding to this crisis must protect the American people and Main Street from the meltdown on Wall Street.

The American people did not decide to dangerously weaken our regulatory and oversight policies. They did not make unwise and risky financial deals. They did not jeopardize the economic security of the nation. And they must not pay the cost of this emergency recovery and stabilization bill.
...
Today, we will act to avert this crisis, but informed by our experience of the past eight years with the failed economic leadership that has left us left capable of meeting the challenges of the future. We choose a different path. In the new year, with a new Congress and a new president, we will break free with a failed past and take America in a New Direction to a better future.

Seriously--"tone deaf Rambo"? This was so mean that the super-sensitive Republicans decided to take their votes and go home? I think the two Gaints fans' theory makes a lot more sense: the public hated it, and there was no hammer for the leadership.

I didn't see it, so maybe she was melting little plastic elephants while reading this. But please, show me where it's so harsh and partisan. Because to me it just reads like typical blah-blah that you'd get from either side, and far more Democrat-justifying (Pelosi's usual MO) and critical of Bush than Republican-bashing.

by **CalvinBall** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:46:39

Bush has been in charge when some of the most historic disasters have happened in our country's short history. 9/11, The War in Iraq, Katrina, and now this. Not saying any of it his his fault just saying it is a sucky time to be president.

by **VoxOrion** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 15:46:42

Sorry for getting your hackles up.

It seemed impolitic to go forward as the leader to get a vote you want and open with a shot on Bush's failed economic policies.

What do you want me to say? I'd think you'd do what you had to to get the deal done and save the speech.

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This campaign isn't about the issues POLITICS THREAD