Laexile wrote:I understand the Democrats lying, misrepresenting, and smearing John McCain while at the same time making people scared about a McCain Presidency. I've learned that if McCain becomes President every aspect of our lives will get worse. Maybe they're laying it a little thick. But yeah, the Republicans will do the same thing next week. I'm sure McCain will do some of that himself.

What gets me is how they can do that and then follow it with a sentence that they're rejecting the "Rove/McCain smear and fear tactics." This leads me to believe the Democrats are either 1) too stupid to know that's what they're doing 2) think America is too stupid to see what they're doing 3) or figure it's okay because it's when you make people afraid of Republicans it's the Democratic tactics of smear and fear.

zOMG PEOPLE IN POLITICS MAKE HYPERBOLIC STATEMENTS?!??!?!?!? WWHHHHYYYYYYYYYY?!??!?!

Chris Matthews losing his composure on the air.

FTN wrote:

Laexile wrote:I understand the Democrats lying, misrepresenting, and smearing John McCain while at the same time making people scared about a McCain Presidency. I've learned that if McCain becomes President every aspect of our lives will get worse. Maybe they're laying it a little thick. But yeah, the Republicans will do the same thing next week. I'm sure McCain will do some of that himself.

What gets me is how they can do that and then follow it with a sentence that they're rejecting the "Rove/McCain smear and fear tactics." This leads me to believe the Democrats are either 1) too stupid to know that's what they're doing 2) think America is too stupid to see what they're doing 3) or figure it's okay because it's when you make people afraid of Republicans it's the Democratic tactics of smear and fear.

you are absolutely out of your mind. gone. off the res. outta here. seriously.

An acceptable judgement if you give a reason.

Bakestar, that's not hyperbole, it's contradiction. I'm sure you can make people afraid and smear with hyperbole, but to do it and then in the next sentence saying you're going to put an end to such tactics just makes you look stupid.

I thought it was a good speech, but who knows.

Biden's basic point--that McCain's judgment has been consistently, comprehensively wrong on foreign policy--seems pretty much undeniable. I'm glad that the Democrats are going to take that on, and I think Biden--who's pretty obviously not a Kucinich-type peacenik--is a very strong advocate for that case.

The Republicans next week will paint Obama as the worst possible combination of Jimmy Carter, H. Rap Brown, Michael Dukakis and Ward Churchill. They can't win any argument on the merits, so they'll try to repeat the (admittedly spectacular) political act from '04 of making the election a referendum on a caricature of the Democrat's character.

The Democrats don't have to demonize McCain, and they didn't; I thought Biden's words about him were just right. They just need to point out the consequences of his consistently awful judgment on foreign policy, and his indifference--as expressed by his policy choices--to the current suffering and ongoing anxieties of the non-rich. Biden did that.

In the context of discussing Bill Clinton's speech tonight, Sullivan to me expresses exactly what the 2008 campaign is about:

[S]ince 2000, the worst aspects of Republicanism have crowded out its once necessary virtues. The reflexive impulse to use force over diplomacy, to use aggression over persuasion, to spend and borrow with no concern for the future, and to violate sacred principles such as the eschewal of torture with no respect for the past: these must not just be left behind. They have to be repudiated.

The United States needs this repudiation, as does the world. McCain, alas, cannot provide it. He may once have. But his party is too far gone, and his moment passed. His use of fear and deception and brattish contempt in this campaign have sealed the deal for me.

Emphasis mine. The only thing that really matters this year is showing the world, and showing history, that we reject the Bush approach in its entirety.

I think this episodepretty much sums up the high-minded, issues-oriented campaign the McCain team is running.

Good response from the Obama guys, though.

dajafi wrote:Biden's basic point--that McCain's judgment has been consistently, comprehensively wrong on foreign policy--seems pretty much undeniable.

The Democrats don't have to demonize McCain, and they didn't; I thought Biden's words about him were just right.

I suppose you live in the world they kept talking about where John McCain and George Bush were making policy together in the White House the last eight years. You stated earlier that even the Republican economists all agreed McCain's economic plan was the same as Bush's. You're once again viewing the world through blue glasses if you think that it's undeniable that McCain has been comprehensively wrong on foreign policy and that the Democrats didn't demonize McCain. The Democrats have been demonizing McCain since March and it's been horrible the last three days. They've demonized him so much that Democrats believe he's wrong consistently comprehensively on foreign policy and that his economic plan is indistinguishable from Bush's.

The Democrats have operated from the beginning with the idea they can't run against John McCain. They have to make people believe that McCain is the same as Bush. That's a tough prospect since Democratic politicians and Democrats in general had a positive view of John McCain for the first six years of Bush's presidency. Since he's hardly voted on any bills in the last year and a half it's tough to see how that would change anyone's views of him. Of course if he'd lost to Romney Democrats would still point to McCain as the one Republican they love.

The funny thing is that this sales job has mostly only worked on Democrats. If the Democrats had been able to convince the conservative Right that McCain was another Bush the election wouldn't be close.

The Republicans have a far easier job with Obama. Since he's been on the scene for such a short time and has no well known legislative accomplishments they can paint him as inexperienced, naive, and in over his head. Without a lot to point to, it's not hard for people to believe this. People know McCain and his record. They've formed their image. The Republicans are better at trickery and deceit and they have the easier job.

Bakestar wrote:Chris Matthews losing his composure on the air.

What else is new? Wake me when the tingly, Ralph Cramden-wannabe does anything in a composed manner.

dajafi wrote:I think this episodepretty much sums up the high-minded, issues-oriented campaign the McCain team is running.

Good response from the Obama guys, though.

A question for clarification followed by a response...

1) Is the McCain team running the Ayers TV ad or one of the 527s?
2) Regardless, the response from the Obama supporters would only be effective if the issue was that Obama is being portrayed as basically an adjunct member of the Weathermen. That's not the case, at least by anyone I've heard or read.

The only issue I've heard in connection with Ayers, and I believe it's legit btw, is Obama's lack of judgement in closely associating himself with an unrepentent scumbag like Ayers and his significant other. Combined with his long-term, close associations/friendships with Wright, Rezko et al., his judgement proves to be highly suspect. For someone who has based his rather thin qualifications for President on having great (some might say superhuman) judgement, this is a big-time problem for Obama and he has noone to blame but himself.

If any of you didn't catch the Daily Show from this past nigh check it out. It was awesome. They ran through all these meltdowns on MSNBC. At one point Olberman not realizing his mic was on said "Jesus Joe, why don't you get a shovel," during a little thing that Joe Scarborough was doing. Gotta love the professionalism.

Stewart also had a hilarious interview with Howard Dean.

Laexile wrote:

dajafi wrote:Biden's basic point--that McCain's judgment has been consistently, comprehensively wrong on foreign policy--seems pretty much undeniable.

The Democrats don't have to demonize McCain, and they didn't; I thought Biden's words about him were just right.

I suppose you live in the world they kept talking about where John McCain and George Bush were making policy together in the White House the last eight years. You stated earlier that even the Republican economists all agreed McCain's economic plan was the same as Bush's. You're once again viewing the world through blue glasses if you think that it's undeniable that McCain has been comprehensively wrong on foreign policy and that the Democrats didn't demonize McCain. The Democrats have been demonizing McCain since March and it's been horrible the last three days. They've demonized him so much that Democrats believe he's wrong consistently comprehensively on foreign policy and that his economic plan is indistinguishable from Bush's.

The Democrats have operated from the beginning with the idea they can't run against John McCain. They have to make people believe that McCain is the same as Bush. That's a tough prospect since Democratic politicians and Democrats in general had a positive view of John McCain for the first six years of Bush's presidency. Since he's hardly voted on any bills in the last year and a half it's tough to see how that would change anyone's views of him. Of course if he'd lost to Romney Democrats would still point to McCain as the one Republican they love.

The funny thing is that this sales job has mostly only worked on Democrats. If the Democrats had been able to convince the conservative Right that McCain was another Bush the election wouldn't be close.

The Republicans have a far easier job with Obama. Since he's been on the scene for such a short time and has no well known legislative accomplishments they can paint him as inexperienced, naive, and in over his head. Without a lot to point to, it's not hard for people to believe this. People know McCain and his record. They've formed their image. The Republicans are better at trickery and deceit and they have the easier job.

Lax

The Democrats want to win. They are sick of 8 years of Repulicans. McCain is not the guy. Deal with it. You act like Dems are supposed to say nice stuff about McCain and say, "yeah, this guys good stuff..." I personally have never been a fan of McCain -- but you act like all Dems should respectfully bow our heads to the stellar record of Senator McCain as a great American eminently qualified for the big White House. It doesn't matter some of the points you keep trying to make -- Dems want to win, they want their guy in there. Period.

We get it, you think McCain is the 'cat's pajamas' and that Obama doesn't float your boat. Ok. What do you want us to say?? McCain is the Republican candidate and most Dems don't want another Republican in there. Simple as that. I don't care if the diff between Bush and McCain is big or small not all or complete -- I don't want another Republican leading this nation.

dajafi wrote:I think this episodepretty much sums up the high-minded, issues-oriented campaign the McCain team is running.

Good response from the Obama guys, though.

The TV ad Obama is currently running across the country is making fun of McCain for being rich and not knowing how many houses he owns. Pretty high minded and issues oriented.

I would say the Ayers ad being aired by the 527 is pretty much all sorts of awesome though

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89m0pC_bpY[/youtube]

Dear Democrats:

I think it's mean the way you keep calling John McCain a Republican, and then remind people that George Bush is a Republican too.

Sincerely,

LAExile

Barackropolis.

Diggin' it.

Romney is going bonkers at Intrade.

jerseyhoya wrote:Romney is going bonkers at Intrade.

Woohoo!

The only better choice would be Lieberman.

I gotta believe the whole Greek pillars as Obama's background set is a smokescreen by his campaign. After the "celebrity" ads by McCain, this would play right into that. The next "celebrity" ad would be served up on a platter for the McCain campaign.

Anyone think Obama and team can be this tone-deaf?

I could not be less impressed with InTrade. I mean I guess when the time to maturity is less than 1d, it does alright, but otherwise, a big bad meh.

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Romney is going bonkers at Intrade.

Woohoo!

The only better choice would be Lieberman.

Also a coworker who worked for Romney just got a phone call from a press secretary for a state GOP asking for pro-Mitt talking points.

jerseyhoya wrote:Romney is going bonkers at Intrade.

Romney's a very good choice for the mountain west and parts of the midwest, namely Michigan. He's a better option than the other names that have been floated recently.

Plus he'll more than hold his own with Biden in the debates, which probably is the biggest impact event(s) for VP candidates on the overall outcome of the election.