It's true, but I'll still put Hillary at 91.3% to win the state.

She's still up almost 40,000 votes. That raw vote total hasn't been below that number in a long time. Though just about everything that is left is his.

jerseyhoya wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:In the end though, elections really interest me. Public policy debates don't. I'm better informed than 99% of people. I don't have despair over what I do for a living.

I must say, I find these remarks terribly troubling. You seem like a well intended chap, but you run down a littany of backwards views with no support and then call yourself informed more than 99%? A person that informed unlikely would hold those views. but forget that -- Public Policy debates don't interest you, just the election as - competitive sport? So form over content, image over substance? I don't get it...??

I know how backwards it is to support pragmatic fixes for Social Security, or a comprehensive energy policy overhaul, or free trade, but I've somehow come to believe in them.

Haha, look at all the white people behind Obama. And none of them wearing Abercrombie.

And Obama called Indiana for Clinton. Surely CNN can.

The last Republican "pragmatic fix for Social Security" would have put a couple million seniors into soup lines, had the idiot president gotten his way three years ago. Of course, to do that he would have had to understand what it was he was trying to sell. Reagan he ain't.

We got it; you don't much care about the consequences of the stuff you don't know about. But don't say that, and then try to pretend like you do.

On energy, I happen to agree with you 100 percent... which might mean you're not the Republican you think you are. Consider just for a moment the likelihood of the people you work for putting together and competently managing a government initiative on the scale you contemplate. Hint: they couldn't contract out the entire operation to relatives of donors.

(For the record, I'd love to be wrong about that and to see the Republicans actually manage a big project with competency and integrity. I gather it still happens at the state level in some places. But generally you can't do that and still stay in the good books of Grover Norquist--whose whole political raison d'etre is that government is inherently inept, there to be first neutered, then looted. Kick his fat ass to the curb and maybe I could take the good intentions of Republicans seriously, and even happily concede that "conservative with principles" isn't an oxymoron.)


Also, the results tonight mean the end of the road for Nixon-in-a-Pantsuit. Her "winning" Indiana by 2 to 4 points won't mean squat; it's a draw on the delegates, she got her narcissistic clock cleaned in NC, and my hunch is that the supers will start to move en masse to Obama tomorrow (before he gets crushed next week). I just wish I could be in the room when she and Bad Boy Billy have it sink in.

Philly the Kid wrote:If it's as close as it looks like going in to the convention, not only Super D's but what about D's flipping? Is Hilary stronger in the established DNC world -- I'd think so. I'm actually surprised how well she's done overall, I thought Obama would start to run away with the thing... gonna be very very tense summer going in to that convention.

Huh-rrong.

Aren't you a Nader guy anyway? What do you care about what we corporate spineless Republicrat weasels do?

Tom Hanks is voting for Obama:

“As an official celebrity, I know my endorsement has just made your mind up for you.”

dajafi wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:If it's as close as it looks like going in to the convention, not only Super D's but what about D's flipping? Is Hilary stronger in the established DNC world -- I'd think so. I'm actually surprised how well she's done overall, I thought Obama would start to run away with the thing... gonna be very very tense summer going in to that convention.

Huh-rrong.

Aren't you a Nader guy anyway? What do you care about what we corporate spineless Republicrat weasels do?

I know of at least ONE former Nader guy on this board....looking straight at you kid. For shame.

pacino wrote:

dajafi wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:If it's as close as it looks like going in to the convention, not only Super D's but what about D's flipping? Is Hilary stronger in the established DNC world -- I'd think so. I'm actually surprised how well she's done overall, I thought Obama would start to run away with the thing... gonna be very very tense summer going in to that convention.

Huh-rrong.

Aren't you a Nader guy anyway? What do you care about what we corporate spineless Republicrat weasels do?

I know of at least ONE former Nader guy on this board....looking straight at you kid. For shame.

And I repented. And it was New York, where... SHUT UP! JUST SHUT UP!



Crap, Eaton walks the leadoff guy.

dajafi wrote:We got it; you don't much care about the consequences of the stuff you don't know about. But don't say that, and then try to pretend like you do.

No, I care some about the consequences of stuff I know a good bit about. I just care way more about the elections, because that's the part I find most interesting. I just don't find policy debates all that interesting.

I love elections. I have for as long as I can remember. My dad was a big Perot guy in 1992, and I remember going around helping him put up signs when I was seven or eight. He ran for State Assembly in 1993 in an insurgent campaign and got smashed by the GOP establishment in the primary. He did so again in 1995. I loved going to the town halls and stuff. Eventually he joined the GOP establishment as a committeeman in Medford. I would help him go around door to door to flyer and such.

My uncle was one of Dole's pollsters in 1996, so I followed that some. I was pretty sad when Dole lost, though I still didn't really understand. I stayed up till 2 in the morning in 2000, and woke up again at 5:30 to watch the election coverage. I sorta remember they were awarding Gore Wisconsin at like 6 in the morning and being really pissed on the bus ride to high school. By this point I was pretty plugged in. I guess I was 16. I wrote the column in my high school paper urging the seniors old enough to vote for Bush. By 2002, I was down in DC, so that was a good time to be a Republican.

I'm probably the only person who can remember what I was doing when Blanco beat Jindal in the runoff in 2003, or when Toomey almost beat Specter in 2004, or set aside an evening to watch the election returns from VA and NJ in 2005. I love elections. I dunno. It's my thing. I could tell you weird things about elections from before my time.

In other news, are they ever going to count the votes in Lake County?

Jeff Toobin is calling out Lake County right now, and I absolutely love it.

jerseyhoya wrote:Jeff Toobin is calling out Lake County right now, and I absolutely love it.

It's just theater, though. She lost ground big-time on both the popular vote and delegates overall tonight. And even if she "wins" Indiana, it'll be likely that Rush Limbaugh voters delivered it for her.

This is it, I think. She might stay in, but she's out of money (weird for a multi-millionaire, but there you go) and at this point the damage will accrue to her reputation. Which, again, is okay by me.

If Hillary is even slightly connected to reality, she should concede the whole thing now. It's over.

TenuredVulture wrote:If Hillary is even slightly connected to reality, she should concede the whole thing now. It's over.

Is it?

Not being flip, but the "House of Clinton" still holds some power. If it's close going in to the convention -- funny stuff could happen.... She's not gonna conceded til she has to, and even then, probably will try to bargain for something. I think its a huge mistake to put Hilary on as running mate... but who knows? maybe they would as some kind of "unification" theory... of course we know that until Cheyney came along, VP didn't have much juice.

It's over.

And spell the VP's name right. Or at least try.

dajafi wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:If it's as close as it looks like going in to the convention, not only Super D's but what about D's flipping? Is Hilary stronger in the established DNC world -- I'd think so. I'm actually surprised how well she's done overall, I thought Obama would start to run away with the thing... gonna be very very tense summer going in to that convention.

Huh-rrong.

Aren't you a Nader guy anyway? What do you care about what we corporate spineless Republicrat weasels do?

I'm a lesser of evils-crat this time 'round. But in general, I'm for not-business-as-usual and shifting the entire landscape that is now seen as 'normal'. Not turn it upside down and inside out, but make some major moves toward a more egalitarian society/world, some redistribution of weatlh, more limits on the propoganda that portends to be impartial media -- and just reign it all in a bit... not gonna happen, Nader isn't my focus now at all.

Obama doesn't represent a bold new future, he's simply not the "house of clinton", and that appeals to me more at this juncture...

The supers--elected officials and party regulars--who supported Nixon-in-a-Pantsuit, mostly did so last year when they thought they were boarding the Inevitability Express. A few more have done so in the last few weeks because their constituents (congressional district or state) did so.

Just about everyone else--those who have endorsed Obama and those who haven't yet endorsed--don't want the Clintons. They remember the 1993-94 ineptitude, and they remember triangulation, and they remember impeachment. They lived the experience that Jimmy Carter characterized so well when he said, "The Clintons are always there when they need you."

The only way the supers were ever going to throw it to her was if it became absolutely clear that Obama would go all McGovern in the general election. If tonight's results were essentially reversed--Clinton winning Indiana by 14-15 points and Obama barely holding on in NC--that might or might not have started the trickle. (If she'd won both, it would have been god help us all time.)

Now they've got the cover they need to start moving to Obama and end this thing. The question is just whether she'll drop out now, put it on autopilot and collect her wins in West Virginia and Kentucky but not attack Obama any further and drop out after he wins Oregon in two weeks, or go all kamikaze and totally wreck what's left of the Clinton name.

Okay. My support for Obama notwithstanding, this makes me a bit uncomfortable:

Updated 11:12 p.m.
By Alec MacGillis
As the fate of a nailbiter Indiana primary -- and possibly the course of the Democratic race -- hung on his city, Gary Mayor Rudy Clay said just now that it might take a while yet to finish counting the vote in Lake County, which includes Gary, and said tonight his city had turned out so overwhelmingly for Barack Obama that it might just be enough to close the gap with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"Let me tell you, when all the votes are counted, when Gary comes in, I think you're looking at something for the world to see," Clay, an Obama supporter, said in a telephone interview from Obama's Gary headquarters. "I don't know what the numbers are yet, but Gary has absolutely produced in large numbers for Obama here."

Clay said the results were late coming in from Lake County because of the large numbers of absentee ballots that had to be counted -- about 11,000. Under local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied with the results from the rest of the county, he said. He said there were no major technical problems holding up the count.

"It takes a little time. We want to be sure that every vote is counted fair and right," he said. "I just talked to the director out there and they are working like junkyard dogs to get that done as soon as possible. They are taking some time but I told them to do it right. That's what taking the time."

A bit too Harris/Blackwell for my tastes. If it's valid, great, but if not, yuck.

If this number from Lake County keeps up, Obama wins.

dajafi wrote:Okay. My support for Obama notwithstanding, this makes me a bit uncomfortable:

Updated 11:12 p.m.
By Alec MacGillis
As the fate of a nailbiter Indiana primary -- and possibly the course of the Democratic race -- hung on his city, Gary Mayor Rudy Clay said just now that it might take a while yet to finish counting the vote in Lake County, which includes Gary, and said tonight his city had turned out so overwhelmingly for Barack Obama that it might just be enough to close the gap with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"Let me tell you, when all the votes are counted, when Gary comes in, I think you're looking at something for the world to see," Clay, an Obama supporter, said in a telephone interview from Obama's Gary headquarters. "I don't know what the numbers are yet, but Gary has absolutely produced in large numbers for Obama here."

Clay said the results were late coming in from Lake County because of the large numbers of absentee ballots that had to be counted -- about 11,000. Under local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied with the results from the rest of the county, he said. He said there were no major technical problems holding up the count.

"It takes a little time. We want to be sure that every vote is counted fair and right," he said. "I just talked to the director out there and they are working like junkyard dogs to get that done as soon as possible. They are taking some time but I told them to do it right. That's what taking the time."

A bit too Harris/Blackwell for my tastes. If it's valid, great, but if not, yuck.

CNN is talking about this, and eviscerating them.

dajafi wrote:The supers--elected officials and party regulars--who supported Nixon-in-a-Pantsuit, mostly did so last year when they thought they were boarding the Inevitability Express. A few more have done so in the last few weeks because their constituents (congressional district or state) did so.

Just about everyone else--those who have endorsed Obama and those who haven't yet endorsed--don't want the Clintons. They remember the 1993-94 ineptitude, and they remember triangulation, and they remember impeachment. They lived the experience that Jimmy Carter characterized so well when he said, "The Clintons are always there when they need you."

The only way the supers were ever going to throw it to her was if it became absolutely clear that Obama would go all McGovern in the general election. If tonight's results were essentially reversed--Clinton winning Indiana by 14-15 points and Obama barely holding on in NC--that might or might not have started the trickle. (If she'd won both, it would have been god help us all time.)

Now they've got the cover they need to start moving to Obama and end this thing. The question is just whether she'll drop out now, put it on autopilot and collect her wins in West Virginia and Kentucky but not attack Obama any further and drop out after he wins Oregon in two weeks, or go all kamikaze and totally wreck what's left of the Clinton name.

Keep in mind, those closest to this stuff, living it, they don't see things as simply or practically as the common literate joe ... and there is ego... if Clinton doesn't make it now, she'll never get another shot. She'll try to hang on as a Senator, which is quite powerful. A far better first lady Prez would be Boxer, but she'd be seen as way too liberal. Feinstein as too conservative. Is Bill Richardson the VP on a Obama ticket? Do they need a southerner? Edwards I don't see somehow... i see a governor, not a Senator...

I hope you are correct, and the focus can shift to taking down McCain and continuing to groom Obama as "presidential material". I'm still very very nervous that he can really win, and given the assumption of cheating by the republicans, whether with dis-enfranchising of voters, or funny algorithms in some of those die-bold machines... the Dems have to win by a fairly large margin to assure a win. And without some seats in the Senate, it will be difficult to do much anyway that isn't superficial, or rhetorical, slogans... but i don't expect much of business-as-usual to change under Obama...

This Lake County stuff is pretty funny. There's a mayor from a town in Lake County who supports Hillary laying out a number of towns in the county that she won, where no results have come in. He says his town's results have been in for almost five hours now, and they haven't registered.

spell it out for me, because you, dajafi, and cnn all seem indignant. Beyond wanting to "get it over with", what does it really matter if results are held until all results are in, or something.

What exactly is the "funny business"?