A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gold!

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:14:48

I don't understand how someone claiming expertise on economics can be so simpleminded and straight up wrong about immigration. Does he not know the disproportionately high rate of new business ventures launched by immigrants? Is it so hard to grasp that the people who bother to try coming across, courting enormous risk and hardship to do so, probably hew more closely to the John Galt profile than, say, the Kochs who inherited most of their lucre and are trying to manipulate gummit to further grow the pile?

It's tough to make Cantor seem well informed and coherent, but I think Prof. Brat has cleared that bar.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:19:48

then there's the republicans for immigration reform that basically want it to create a permanent underclass of cheap labor with little to no rights. they are intellectually dishonest with how they couch their opinions, too (American Dream, etc.).

as it is, it appears this guy is a Randian loon. He'll fit right in. The sky isn't falling, it fell some years ago.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:32:25

dajafi wrote:I don't understand how someone claiming expertise on economics can be so simpleminded and straight up wrong about immigration. Does he not know the disproportionately high rate of new business ventures launched by immigrants? Is it so hard to grasp that the people who bother to try coming across, courting enormous risk and hardship to do so, probably hew more closely to the John Galt profile than, say, the Kochs who inherited most of their lucre and are trying to manipulate gummit to further grow the pile?

It's tough to make Cantor seem well informed and coherent, but I think Prof. Brat has cleared that bar.

Is he calling for an end to or a decrease of legal immigration?

Harry Reid is proud of you for getting the Koch brothers into this post.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby Youseff » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:33:13

Image

good party filled with good folks.
This is what a real tenderoni likes to do for you

Youseff
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 22976
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 03:47:53
Location: Ice Mountain

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby TomatoPie » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:36:54

dajafi wrote:I don't understand how someone claiming expertise on economics can be so simpleminded and straight up wrong about immigration. Does he not know the disproportionately high rate of new business ventures launched by immigrants?


A person with an anti-immigrant belief is one who is ignorant of American history. Immigrants made us great and keep us in growth mode.

When a guy like Brat takes an anti-immigrant stance, I have to think it's not a belief or core value, but simply a political tactic, like when Bill Clinton goes to church.

And it may be a tactic to get elected in his xenophobic corner of VA, but it's a non-starter in national politics.
Kill the chicken to scare the monkey

TomatoPie
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 5184
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 22:18:10
Location: Delaware Valley

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:36:57

the vitriol thrown at cantor by his own party is weird.


as for the above guy, i imagine he tweeted that from his porch, sippin' his coffee and thinkin' 'yeah, AMERICA!'
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:37:33

jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:I don't understand how someone claiming expertise on economics can be so simpleminded and straight up wrong about immigration. Does he not know the disproportionately high rate of new business ventures launched by immigrants? Is it so hard to grasp that the people who bother to try coming across, courting enormous risk and hardship to do so, probably hew more closely to the John Galt profile than, say, the Kochs who inherited most of their lucre and are trying to manipulate gummit to further grow the pile?

It's tough to make Cantor seem well informed and coherent, but I think Prof. Brat has cleared that bar.

Is he calling for an end to or a decrease of legal immigration?

Harry Reid is proud of you for getting the Koch brothers into this post.


Koch brothers line kind of stings, I see. Truth tends to do that.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:46:25

TomatoPie wrote:
dajafi wrote:I don't understand how someone claiming expertise on economics can be so simpleminded and straight up wrong about immigration. Does he not know the disproportionately high rate of new business ventures launched by immigrants?


A person with an anti-immigrant belief is one who is ignorant of American history. Immigrants made us great and keep us in growth mode.

When a guy like Brat takes an anti-immigrant stance, I have to think it's not a belief or core value, but simply a political tactic, like when Bill Clinton goes to church.
And it may be a tactic to get elected in his xenophobic corner of VA, but it's a non-starter in national politics.

speaking of weird asides
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:57:11

I was actually going to comment on that.

I totally credit Bill Clinton's genuine religiosity. And George W. Bush's, and Newt's, and Rubio's, and Palin's, and probably even Hillary's. I think they all truly feel they have a personal relationship with God, and in every case their image of God is uncannily close to the image they see in the bathroom mirror each morning. Start from the premise that God agrees with you in every instance and it becomes a lot easier to make otherwise unconscionable decisions.

The two pols I would say are probably false in their religiosity are Obama, who might have sincerely grasped at faith as a young man ("Dreams From My Father" is fairly convincing on this) but now barely even seems to try, and McConnell, who I think is pretty much a nihilist.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby drsmooth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:15:43

jerseyhoya wrote:And people for limited government aren't anarchists, just those who want government to be restricted to its legitimate roles. Protecting the country's borders/sovereignty isn't incompatible with that.


"legitimate"

there's a qualifier
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby drsmooth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:23:35

CalvinBall wrote:could you provide a bit more commentary on that dr


sorry Cal, had to jump off awhile

basically, Todd was lobbing up his usual softballs - probably warming up for his smoochyfest with noted sage Bill Kristol - and Brat, understandably probably overcaffeinated & under-rested from last evening's coup started rattling off all the confused & contradictory memes in his ideological kitbag, unmediated by Todd, who it appeared started to realize that merely letting the glassy-eyed, smiling-too-hard guy ramble was just the profile he wanted to present his (Todd's) bored/indifferent audience
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby drsmooth » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:39:53

Hagel's not very good at this testimony-giving thing

when you struggle to disarm/disembowel a slackass like Jeff Miller, you're not very good at it
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby Barry Jive » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:01:23

Youseff wrote:Image

good party filled with good folks.


Image
no offense but you are everything that's wrong with America

Barry Jive
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 37856
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 21:53:43
Location: I'm Doug, solamente Doug.

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby Swiggers » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:42:32

pacino wrote:the vitriol thrown at cantor by his own party is weird.


Symptomatic of the growing schism in the GOP: big business vs. tea party. It's just going to get uglier.

Then there are the issues with Cantor himself, who appears to have turned into a vain douchebag who ignored his constituents.
jerseyhoya wrote:I think the reason you get yelled at is you appear to hate listening to sports talk radio, but regularly listen to sports talk radio, and then frequently post about how bad listening to sports talk radio is after you were once again listening to it.

Swiggers
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 5961
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 15:03:02
Location: Barrington, NJ

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:46:00

The media and the pundits are making too much of this, just like they made too much of all the establishment wins last week and proclaimed the Tea Party dead. The forces operating here are not going away and they existed before there was a Tea Party and they'll be a force in American politics for the foreseeable future. Establishment Republicans and even the Kochs are probably making a pretty big strategic error if they think they can exploit populist discontent forever and not pay a price. We are seeing possibly the beginnings of an anti-business movement in the Republican party.

That may be overstating things a bit. The weaker version is I really do think though that incumbents from all points on the spectrum are going to be a lot less safe unless Congress cleans up its act.

Also, it suggests that maybe spending tons of effort trying to get campaign finance reform passed isn't really worth it. Cantor had a ton of money and still got creamed. Moreover, we've seen how the interweb can be leveraged to provide lots of money from small contributors.

Reading this http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/2 ... html?hp=r1 I think we'll have to start talking about the Establishment Tea Party, which more or less exists to separate angry white people from their money and the real or as I'm going to start calling it the Movement Tea Party which really is angry about bailouts and crony capitalists and probably worry about drones and immigrants and things.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby Wolfgang622 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 13:04:01

I guess I'll post this before someone else does. No doubt this ruing will be a big reason to celebrate among the political right and ed reform types. I think the judge way overstates the case here, particularly on the constitutionality of teacher tenure laws (he may not like them, but that doesn't make them unconstitutional, and "logic" has never been a test of constitutional worthiness that I've ever seen before).

The problem with evaluating educators is that teaching is as much an art as it is a science. Certainly, there are good and bad teachers, as there are anything else. The problem in my mind is that it is very possible to have two students in the same room with the same teacher, one of whom thinks that the teacher in the front of the room is among the best she's ever had, and one of whom thinks he's among the worst he's ever had. Evaluating teaching should have a collaborative component; subjecting it to top-down one off rulings is neither fair nor objective.

I think there are sensible reforms that can be made to teacher tenure that would allow it to serve its intended function without costing so much to remove ineffective teachers (who are hated by effective teachers as much if not more than they are hated by everyone else). Due process is important, but it can be stream lined; there might be a longer and tougher road to hoe before tenure is granted; etc. It's a shame that this ruling is so obviously political in its origins.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/us ... 2&referrer
"I'm in a bar with the games sound turned off and that Cespedes home run still sounded like inevitability."

-swish

Wolfgang622
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 28653
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 23:11:51
Location: Baseball Heaven

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 11, 2014 13:11:00

Also, it suggests that maybe spending tons of effort trying to get campaign finance reform passed isn't really worth it. Cantor had a ton of money and still got creamed. Moreover, we've seen how the interweb can be leveraged to provide lots of money from small contributors.

the vast majority of the time, the candidate with more money ends up winning. it's still a huge issue.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby sydnor » Wed Jun 11, 2014 13:21:43

pacino wrote:
Also, it suggests that maybe spending tons of effort trying to get campaign finance reform passed isn't really worth it. Cantor had a ton of money and still got creamed. Moreover, we've seen how the interweb can be leveraged to provide lots of money from small contributors.

the vast majority of the time, the candidate with more money ends up winning. it's still a huge issue.


agree with pacino, that is some serious "exception that proves the rule" ish going on.

The natural response by the establishment, btw, will be to just raise MORE money to make sure this doesn't happen.
sydnor
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 08:32:47

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 11, 2014 13:43:54

What Cantor's Loss and Graham's Win Mean - Trende with a good piece, going along with some of what TV is saying, though I don't think all of it.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: A New Politics Thread? That's Gold Gerry(mandering); Gol

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 11, 2014 13:48:50

Taliban prisoner swap makes sense:
Of the five, only Mullah Mohammad Fazl and Mullah Norullah Noori were significant military commanders. In November 2001, as their movement was collapsing around them, they surrendered, along with their foot soldiers, to the U.S.-backed warlord Abdul Rashid Dostum. (Fazl is a notorious human rights violator, as is Dostum).

Years earlier, Fazl had helped Dostum escape a precarious battlefield situation, and he engineered the deal in the hopes of having the favor returned. But Dostum sold them to the Americans and massacred hundreds—some sources say thousands—of their foot soldiers and conscripts by suffocating them in shipping containers.

Instead of being recalcitrant terrorists bent on fighting America, this history indicates that all five can make pragmatic deals if the conditions are right. Does this mean they won't pose a threat upon their release?

It's difficult to say; two Taliban commanders who surrendered to Dostum alongside Fazl and Noori were also sent to Guantanamo. Upon their release in 2007, they quickly joined the insurgency and rose to its top ranks. Ghulam Rohani, who was arrested with Wasiq, has rejoined the fight since his release that same year. On the other hand, other Taliban leaders have successfully returned to civilian life after their Guantanamo release, including Taliban Ambassador Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, Commerce Minister Mullah Abdul Razak, and Gov. Naim Kuchi.

What is clear, though, is that with the ongoing turnover of the Taliban's mid- and senior-level leadership in recent years, the arrival of a few individuals to Qatar is unlikely to make a significant impact on the battlefield in Afghanistan.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

PreviousNext