Doll Is Mine wrote:Ugh. I can't believe he traded Kratz.

I can't believe he traded Rasmussen, mainly because I don't know who the fuck he is.

Polar Bear Phan wrote:

Doll Is Mine wrote:Ugh. I can't believe he traded Kratz.

I can't believe he traded Rasmussen, mainly because I don't know who the fuck he is.

Guy they got in M. Young deal with Dodgers

heyeaglefn wrote:He should help the iron pigs this year.

Out of options says Zoleki.

Missin you KRATZ!

Can't believe they are bringing back the same team as last year. And why did they get rid of Kratz?

If we were grading the offseason to date, I'd give Amaro an F. I expect that by spring training, it will be a D or a D-.

What's everyone else at? And where do you think they'll be. I somehow feel Grote's going to give him a B-, and expect a B+

it was hard for my opinion of rube to sink lower. a little thing like this won't do it.

Shore wrote:I somehow feel Grote's going to give him a B-, and expect a B+

If anything, I've been a broken record about spending up to $189M and protecting picks and prospects. So far, so good, but he's got work to do

It's all about expectations. Where I differ from some of you is that I think the team is in such bad shape that even if he'd spent half a billion dollars on Ellsbury, Choo, McCann, and Tanaka it still wouldn't have pushed them to more than 88 wins or so. With that as the starting point, the goal IMO is to minimize harm. Thus far, amaro hasn't ceded picks or otherwise made any new dumb long-term commitments.

He also hasn't done anything that's added to the talent inventory, improved the team's financial situation, brought in obviously great evaluators or instructors, or otherwise strengthened the team's competitive position long-term.

But then again, he's a wretchedly inept GM. What I really want is for him to get canned as soon as possible, and honestly the public reaction to these moves seems like it's speeding that day.

So I'd give him a D for actual moves.

Grote, I don't see how you can possibly include "spending up to the 189 million" as a criteria for success of a GM. That's the owners decision. I don't think he'll be allowed to spend up to that number, but even if he did, he could give that to relievers that don't help us in any way.

I see the whole idea about "protecting picks" even while I completely disagree that adding a premium player is not worth a 2nd round pick, about 50th overall and if you put that as a criteria, you should give him props for it. But not the act of spending money itself. It has to be to a good end.

I have the same viewpoint...hoping for a few terrible moves prior to the season to really step up the criticism that will lead to his demise as GM of this team. Anyone who thinks this team has a chance to compete next season is delusional

dajafi wrote:It's all about expectations. Where I differ from some of you is that I think the team is in such bad shape that even if he'd spent half a billion dollars on Ellsbury, Choo, McCann, and Tanaka it still wouldn't have pushed them to more than 88 wins or so. With that as the starting point, the goal IMO is to minimize harm. Thus far, amaro hasn't ceded picks or otherwise made any new dumb long-term commitments.

He also hasn't done anything that's added to the talent inventory, improved the team's financial situation, brought in obviously great evaluators or instructors, or otherwise strengthened the team's competitive position long-term.

But then again, he's a wretchedly inept GM. What I really want is for him to get canned as soon as possible, and honestly the public reaction to these moves seems like it's speeding that day.

So I'd give him a D for actual moves.

Again, it sounds like you and others want a complete tear down. Which is fine, but that ship sailed last year when they didn't trade Lee and re-signed Utley. It's over, and we're all on the record with our feelings.

I don't think we should view this winter's public statements and moves, then, in that context, but rather the context of giving the team a puncher's chance in 2014 without impeding the later years. And, I disagree that it's delusional to think the Phils can be in the mix next year, at least until July (at which point Franco could be ready or they could add via trade). Dave Cameron of all people agrees. We would need a lot to go right, obviously, but boo hoo, so would almost every other team

Grotewold wrote:

dajafi wrote:It's all about expectations. Where I differ from some of you is that I think the team is in such bad shape that even if he'd spent half a billion dollars on Ellsbury, Choo, McCann, and Tanaka it still wouldn't have pushed them to more than 88 wins or so. With that as the starting point, the goal IMO is to minimize harm. Thus far, amaro hasn't ceded picks or otherwise made any new dumb long-term commitments.

He also hasn't done anything that's added to the talent inventory, improved the team's financial situation, brought in obviously great evaluators or instructors, or otherwise strengthened the team's competitive position long-term.

But then again, he's a wretchedly inept GM. What I really want is for him to get canned as soon as possible, and honestly the public reaction to these moves seems like it's speeding that day.

So I'd give him a D for actual moves.

Again, it sounds like you and others want a complete tear down. Which is fine, but that ship sailed last year when they didn't trade Lee and re-signed Utley. It's over, and we're all on the record with our feelings.

I don't think we should view this winter's public statements and moves, then, in that context, but rather the context of giving the team a puncher's chance in 2014 without impeding the later years. And, I disagree that it's delusional to think the Phils can be in the mix next year, at least until July (at which point Franco could be ready or they could add via trade). Dave Cameron of all people agrees. We would need a lot to go right, obviously, but boo hoo, so would almost every other team

Fuck a bunch of Dave Cameron. Everyone here clowns on him until he likes our team. He's still a clown.

If you stick my hand in a blender, it's going to hurt. If you keep my hand in the blender, it's going to continue to hurt. If you then explain that I'm thinking of it in the wrong context - that the decision to put my hand in a blender is already made, that you believe it's a good idea, so it really shouldn't hurt any more than it already did.... it's still going to hurt.

The fact that Amaro doesn't know what he's doing, and that we've all accepted that, and that he's making moves based on a false perception of where this team is, does NOT make the decisions better, or more "understandable".

how bout the fact that this move hardly matters one way or the other

Gonna try that blender thing later.

Shore wrote:If you stick my hand in a blender, it's going to hurt. If you keep my hand in the blender, it's going to continue to hurt. If you then explain that I'm thinking of it in the wrong context - that the decision to put my hand in a blender is already made, that you believe it's a good idea, so it really shouldn't hurt any more than it already did.... it's still going to hurt.

The fact that Amaro doesn't know what he's doing, and that we've all accepted that, and that he's making moves based on a false perception of where this team is, does NOT make the decisions better, or more "understandable".

I didn't say it made the moves better or more understandable. Just that the "patch up" approach and Amaro being the GM are settled, for now at least. So projecting your hatred for those things onto every single quote and move is overkill and kind of a waste of time, imo

As to your blender analogy, my hand would hurt like a mf, but I wouldn't keep yelling, "Whoah, my hand's in a blender!"

dajafi wrote:It's all about expectations. Where I differ from some of you is that I think the team is in such bad shape that even if he'd spent half a billion dollars on Ellsbury, Choo, McCann, and Tanaka it still wouldn't have pushed them to more than 88 wins or so. With that as the starting point, the goal IMO is to minimize harm. Thus far, amaro hasn't ceded picks or otherwise made any new dumb long-term commitments.

He also hasn't done anything that's added to the talent inventory, improved the team's financial situation, brought in obviously great evaluators or instructors, or otherwise strengthened the team's competitive position long-term.

But then again, he's a wretchedly inept GM. What I really want is for him to get canned as soon as possible, and honestly the public reaction to these moves seems like it's speeding that day.

So I'd give him a D for actual moves.

Total agreement here.

Grote would you give Amaro the D

The whole "seething with rage at lack of teardown" angle only works if you assume we had assets to sell last season and those assets will depreciate in value this season. Welp it doesn't look like we could have gotten much from Rollins and Chooch last year. Lol at anyone picking up Howard. And lol at Utley and Lee not still retaining trade value as assets

In addition, if we did see Rube actually commence a substantial firesale last season, that would ostensibly mean that he has sold ownership on his intermediate-term vision of rebuilding the roster, and thus likely had their trust as GM moving forward. Since we all hate his guts as an executive, why would that be a good thing? By comparison, Jays didn't let Ricciardi trade Halladay when he was on his way out, they let the new guy take care of the asset unloading