It's the whole starting him in left thing, even if it is a platoon. It doesn't matter that he'd be playing less games, it's that he'd be playing any games. His bat isn't good enough (not to mention that a.) lefties get 75% of the starts in a platoon and b.) it's not like we'd be protecting some mythical trade value for him - if that was the case just say he's your starting CF until the minute you trade him).

I mean in the context of a lot of other moves, I can live with Revere as the starting cf next year given his salary should remain pretty low right (arb eligible but the salary should be held down by the injury and somewhat middling offensive stats).

But left field? Guy should be tied to train tracks.

didn't read

this would seem to make the truce null and void.

but I went back and read again your comments. I don't see what I'm mischaracterizing.

Edit: reduce his role on the Phils seems to be your main point as you said it twice. But did you know, and can you concede, that if he gets 600 AB in CF vs. 450 AB in lf, he can actually do more damage in LF than he could do in CF? That's an actual possibility and likely a probability.

sydnor wrote:if he gets 600 AB in CF vs. 450 AB in lf, he can actually do more damage in LF than he could do in CF? That's an actual possibility and likely a probability.

Only if them viewing Revere as a LF precludes the acquisition or use of a significantly better option. In which case they could just just acquire/use that option and keep Revere in CF.

Believe it or not, I can wrap my mind around the notion of not having weak-hitting players in traditionally strong-hitting positions. And, you might also be surprised to learn, I favor putting the best player possible at each of the eight positions. But it's absurd to flatly state that there's no way Revere playing partly or mostly LF could be part of a winning formula, within the reality of finite resources.

Can they win with Revere in LF? Yes, absolutely they can.

Should they risk it when a player of his stature is easily replaced by a COMPETENT front office (competency is in question when you trot out the 2013 Phillies outfield), absolutely not. It's too easy to find a better left handed part of a platoon to accompany Ruf.

That's flat out.

sydnor wrote:Can they win with Revere in LF? Yes, absolutely they can.

Should they risk it when a player of his stature is easily replaced by a COMPETENT front office (competency is in question when you trot out the 2013 Phillies outfield), absolutely not. It's too easy to find a better left handed part of a platoon to accompany Ruf.

That's flat out.

By that logic, every "competent" team would have eight studs on the field at all times

Fixating on Revere's relation to other LFers (which isn't even that skewed) rather than the overall composition of the team is a narrow view

No, it's not. I don't want 8 studs. I'm happy with a lf platoon of Darin Ruf and Oswaldo Arcia for all I care. I don't want a guy playing left field who is really a CF and doesn't have a bat that can carry left.

I'm more than happy with a platoon, let's not have the platoon lefty hit under a .700 OPS.

Now we're just going in circles. See ya in the restaurant thread

Alright, but it's not like I'm the only one who feels this way. Noted friend Monkeyboy as well as PC have also voiced this. It really is simple, his value becomes less in left field and he wasn't full of value before a move to lf. Why we can't be upset about this? When are we allowed to criticize Ruben if not for something that makes no sense?

isn't a big part of the whole idea of Revere that he will eventually provide somewhere near elite cf defense? his speed and bunting on offense isn't enough to make him a worthy player. if we get another cf, then seeya later

regarding the infield defense 2008/2013 thing, are those stats available? whats the difference between the best and worst infields this year? I'm really skeptical of that 135 run difference

sydnor wrote:According to fangraphs he was worth 3 wins in 2012 playing rf. I call bs on that because all 3 wins (and then some) were due to defense and baserunning and we've seen that his defense isn't exceptional by any means

He played zero games in RF for the Phillies, so we know his corner defense wouldn't be good because he didn't do well in center?

A young, cheap corner outfielder who runs fast and could very well be a very fine defensive player. Who gets on base and adds value with base running.

Can't see any value in that.

The big key with Revere is the lingering effect of his injury. If he can't run fast, he's about worthless.

Clearly, he has zero power. That isn't good. But teams that focus on a guy's weakness and don't understand his strengths are bad teams.

Revere "gets on base" only in the context of most phillies hardly ever getting on base last year.

.380 OBP from May 1st until he broke his damn foot. That's pretty decent.

Which sounds nice, but means nothing.

I know right, night?

If smitty assured me that he would have a .380 OBP, I'd sign up for that in a minute. For .360, I'd take it.

But the guy's best is .340. not good enough.

I'll go .350 and half an egg salad sandwich

deal??

smitty wrote:A young, cheap corner outfielder who runs fast and could very well be a very fine defensive player. Who gets on base and adds value with base running.

Can't see any value in that.

The big key with Revere is the lingering effect of his injury. If he can't run fast, he's about worthless.

Clearly, he has zero power. That isn't good. But teams that focus on a guy's weakness and don't understand his strengths are bad teams.

The problem, of course, is that I saw very little of this elite defense and baserunning he's supposed to possess. Don't get me wrong, I would rather try to score him from 2B on a single than Ruf, but if that's the extent of his advantage, I'd rather go with Ruf or another option. And I don't buy his high OBP since it lasted about a month or so and was predicated on hitting .344 BABIP (and that includes his bad start) in a park that suppresses singles and doubles. It's also harder to score from 1B and that's almost always where he starts.

I do, however, think he has some value as a late game defender or baserunner. He could take over for Ruf or someone else when we have a lead or need a SB. So if they put him in that role, I'm fine with it. He's a better 5th OFer than Nix and some of the other clowns Ruben has put in that role. My concern is they see him as a starter with good enough offense to play a corner OF spot, which in my opinion would negate anything gained by getting a top CFer.

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Which sounds nice, but means nothing.

It means something. The guy had a godawful start. He's not a .380 OBP guy. But he showed on base talent.