Bucky wrote:someone just posted a pic of rube jogging on the wildwood boardwalk this morning, so i guess we're done

bluetooth earpiece

Rube seems like the kinda guy who would answer the call in the john and make you listen to him wipe and flush

Trent Steele wrote:

Roger Dorn wrote:Rube is not really going to stand pat and do nothing...right?

I cant believe he would hold on to MY10. Just doesnt make any sense.

Having extensive talks with at least three teams and calling up his replacement? Half measures.

Let's kidnap his son.

Grotewold wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:

Roger Dorn wrote:Rube is not really going to stand pat and do nothing...right?

I cant believe he would hold on to MY10. Just doesnt make any sense.

Having extensive talks with at least three teams and calling up his replacement? Half measures.

Let's kidnap his son.

I don't care if he gives him away for an A Ball reliever. Every AB he takes away from Asche or Ruf or whoever is pointless. I think that will happen today so I'm not ready to commit any felonies.

Trent Steele wrote:I don't care if he gives him away for an A Ball reliever. Every AB he takes away from Asche or Ruf or whoever is pointless. I think that will happen today so I'm not ready to commit any felonies.

You really think it's the return that's holding things up? C'mon man.

kimbatiste wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:i'm dreading the thought of amaro trying to construct a playoff team this offseason. looks like he'll be in the exact same situation as he was this year.

I think we're in a much better position this off-season than last off-season. Last year, we went into it thinking we did not have a single starting OF, a 3B, a backend starter, and virtually an entire bullpen. This year, assuming we re-sign Chase, we need a corner outfielder, a catcher, maybe a backend starter, and a bullpen. Dom's emergence, Revere looking not totally useless, and Asche/Franco make things a lot easier.

I guess I just have a hard time envisioning how to make this team better. There will be an opening in either lf or rf and at catcher. I'd expect some type of attempted upgrade at both spots (mccann/salty, choo/hart/willingham) but the rest of the lineup is pretty much set. howard/utley/rollins/asche and brown/revere. the rotation is going to cost at least $60m, 70-75 if you bring halladay back. a declining papelbon for 13m and 6m for a setup guy who won't be ready for the start of the season, plus a bunch of guys who haven't shown enough to instill any confidence in them. they were mediocre last year, look like they'll be a little worse than that this year. can't say I see it getting much better with rube leading the charge.

JFLNYC wrote:At the end of the day, nothing of any consequence is likely to happen because of various factors:

1. Waiting too long (Paps)
2. Stable blindness (Utley to be a Phillie for life)
3. NTC's (MY10, Rollins, numerous others)
4. Immovable contracts (Howard)
5. Crappy players (Delmon, etc.)

Apologists will no doubt find some reason to defend Rube, but every factor is a result of his actions. So for 2014 we're going to stand pat, patch by signing mediocre FA's who won't cost draft picks, put some lipstick on the pig and try to convince everyone that, with a little luck, we're going to contend.

I personally don't want a full tear down, which trading Lee or Utley represents, imo. Thus:

1. I'm fine with not moving him when we were playing well and the Braves & Nats were not. Moving forward, I'm not gonna get worked up about him at $13M instead of Balfour or whoever at $8/9M
2. Happy
3. Would like to move on from Rollins but supported that contract at the time
4. Is what it is
5. WGAF

We installed a new LF and CF this year, will be starting a rookie 3B next year, may well platoon Howard, will either have Chooch back cheap or a new catcher, have at least one new starting pitcher (and offseason trade flexibility there). I haven't crunched the numbers, but it seems like we'll end up with financial flexibility as well. The sky is not falling.

Jimmy is a 10 and 5 guy, so the NTC doesn't matter

Grotewold wrote:We installed a new LF and CF this year, will be starting a rookie 3B next year, may well platoon Howard, will either have Chooch back cheap or a new catcher, have at least one new starting pitcher (and offseason trade flexibility there). I haven't crunched the numbers, but it seems like we'll end up with financial flexibility as well. The sky is not falling.

Full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Trent Steele wrote:Jimmy is a 10 and 5 guy, so the NTC doesn't matter

Rube re-signed him.

I'm certain MYoung will go to the Rangers for practically nothing. I think Papelbon's the next most likely to get traded due to his bitching and he also won't return anything.

bleh wrote:I think Papelbon's the next most likely to get traded due to his bitching and he also won't return anything.

But it'll free us up to sign another closer everyone hates! Or we could try the "just trot all the rookies and waiver wire guys out there" approach that's worked so well for innings 6-8

ReadingPhilly wrote:

kimbatiste wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:i'm dreading the thought of amaro trying to construct a playoff team this offseason. looks like he'll be in the exact same situation as he was this year.

I think we're in a much better position this off-season than last off-season. Last year, we went into it thinking we did not have a single starting OF, a 3B, a backend starter, and virtually an entire bullpen. This year, assuming we re-sign Chase, we need a corner outfielder, a catcher, maybe a backend starter, and a bullpen. Dom's emergence, Revere looking not totally useless, and Asche/Franco make things a lot easier.

I guess I just have a hard time envisioning how to make this team better. There will be an opening in either lf or rf and at catcher. I'd expect some type of attempted upgrade at both spots (mccann/salty, choo/hart/willingham) but the rest of the lineup is pretty much set. howard/utley/rollins/asche and brown/revere. the rotation is going to cost at least $60m, 70-75 if you bring halladay back. a declining papelbon for 13m and 6m for a setup guy who won't be ready for the start of the season, plus a bunch of guys who haven't shown enough to instill any confidence in them. they were mediocre last year, look like they'll be a little worse than that this year. can't say I see it getting much better with rube leading the charge.

I don't think you can say asche is locked in. So that would open 3 of 8 positions. That is a pretty big turnover.

Grotewold wrote:

bleh wrote:I think Papelbon's the next most likely to get traded due to his bitching and he also won't return anything.

But it'll free us up to sign another closer everyone hates! Or we could try the "just trot all the rookies and waiver wire guys out there" approach that's worked so well for innings 6-8

Teams do find solid closers/relief pitchers without spending a billion dollars on them. Tampa does it every year. Uehara makes less than Mike Adams let alone Papelbon. Grilli. Veras. Benoit. Romo.

Just because we've been bad at it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Trent Steele wrote: Teams do find solid closers/relief pitchers without spending a billion dollars on them. Tampa does it every year. Uehara makes less than Mike Adams let alone Papelbon. Grilli. Veras. Benoit. Romo.

Yeah and you almost never see it go the other way, or teams signing expensive closers.

ReadingPhilly wrote:

kimbatiste wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:i'm dreading the thought of amaro trying to construct a playoff team this offseason. looks like he'll be in the exact same situation as he was this year.

I think we're in a much better position this off-season than last off-season. Last year, we went into it thinking we did not have a single starting OF, a 3B, a backend starter, and virtually an entire bullpen. This year, assuming we re-sign Chase, we need a corner outfielder, a catcher, maybe a backend starter, and a bullpen. Dom's emergence, Revere looking not totally useless, and Asche/Franco make things a lot easier.

I guess I just have a hard time envisioning how to make this team better. There will be an opening in either lf or rf and at catcher. I'd expect some type of attempted upgrade at both spots (mccann/salty, choo/hart/willingham) but the rest of the lineup is pretty much set. howard/utley/rollins/asche and brown/revere. the rotation is going to cost at least $60m, 70-75 if you bring halladay back. a declining papelbon for 13m and 6m for a setup guy who won't be ready for the start of the season, plus a bunch of guys who haven't shown enough to instill any confidence in them. they were mediocre last year, look like they'll be a little worse than that this year. can't say I see it getting much better with rube leading the charge.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is going to be easy. Rube will have to hit a home run these offseason for us to be a real contender next year. Just think its not as hopeless as last year.

Grotewold wrote:

Trent Steele wrote: Teams do find solid closers/relief pitchers without spending a billion dollars on them. Tampa does it every year. Uehara makes less than Mike Adams let alone Papelbon. Grilli. Veras. Benoit. Romo.

Yeah and you almost never see it go the other way, or teams signing expensive closers.

Ok. Teams do lots of dumb shit but I would rather that my team not. The closers for the 8 best teams in MLB (pit, stl, atl, lad,, bos, tb, oak, det) make combined about 1/3 of what Papelbon makes.

Wheels Tupay wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:

kimbatiste wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:i'm dreading the thought of amaro trying to construct a playoff team this offseason. looks like he'll be in the exact same situation as he was this year.

I think we're in a much better position this off-season than last off-season. Last year, we went into it thinking we did not have a single starting OF, a 3B, a backend starter, and virtually an entire bullpen. This year, assuming we re-sign Chase, we need a corner outfielder, a catcher, maybe a backend starter, and a bullpen. Dom's emergence, Revere looking not totally useless, and Asche/Franco make things a lot easier.

I guess I just have a hard time envisioning how to make this team better. There will be an opening in either lf or rf and at catcher. I'd expect some type of attempted upgrade at both spots (mccann/salty, choo/hart/willingham) but the rest of the lineup is pretty much set. howard/utley/rollins/asche and brown/revere. the rotation is going to cost at least $60m, 70-75 if you bring halladay back. a declining papelbon for 13m and 6m for a setup guy who won't be ready for the start of the season, plus a bunch of guys who haven't shown enough to instill any confidence in them. they were mediocre last year, look like they'll be a little worse than that this year. can't say I see it getting much better with rube leading the charge.

I don't think you can say asche is locked in. So that would open 3 of 8 positions. That is a pretty big turnover.

Asche may not be locked in but between him, Franco, and Frandsen, I don't think we need to make any real investments there over the offseason.

Wheels Tupay wrote:I don't think you can say asche is locked in. So that would open 3 of 8 positions. That is a pretty big turnover.

feel like you have to give him a shot. they're not going to block franco with a fa signing if the feel like he's another year away.

Trent Steele wrote:Ok. Teams do lots of dumb shit but I would rather that my team not. The closers for the 8 best teams in MLB (pit, stl, atl, lad,, bos, tb, oak, det) make combined about 1/3 of what Papelbon makes.

I get that. Really. I'd love to develop a Motte or Kimbrel or Jansen. Just saying, you could argue Boston got lucky with Uehara and could have easily been in deep shit right now. But if we had a couple high-ceiling relief prospects and could sign a couple $4-5M free agents instead of Papelbon, I would consider that approach. Just saying it's not uncommon by any means or crazy to pay a premium for a higher chance of elite performance and stability.

Anyway, I can feel this isn't gonna be my day here. This isn't me ceding the last word. This is me running and hiding.