Trent Steele wrote:

The Phillies averaged 7,895 fewer fans per game in their first 12 home dates this season compared to last season's first 12. Only the Miami Marlins have suffered a larger per game decrease (10,588).

This is a staggering number. Assuming for argument's sake that it holds, that's over 600k fewer fans this year. Average ticket price is around $40, although I assume the empty seats are the lower priced tickets. Even you assume around $30 or so, that's around $20m in lost revenue from last year just on tickets.

Last night was the emptiest that I've ever seen the stadium, and I've been there for the on-deck series. The paid attendance might have been 30,002, but the number of people there was closer to 25, if that. There were entire sections that were empty. I sat on the first base line, a few rows off the field, and my row was maybe half full.

showers in Lebanon

Trent Steele wrote:

The Phillies averaged 7,895 fewer fans per game in their first 12 home dates this season compared to last season's first 12. Only the Miami Marlins have suffered a larger per game decrease (10,588).

This is a staggering number. Assuming for argument's sake that it holds, that's over 600k fewer fans this year. Average ticket price is around $40, although I assume the empty seats are the lower priced tickets. Even you assume around $30 or so, that's around $20m in lost revenue from last year just on tickets.

Attendance figures are usually way different than ticket sale figures. I can't imagine they actually have an 8K deficit per game in unsold seats?

Edit: nevermind someone else said the same thing

Woody wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:

The Phillies averaged 7,895 fewer fans per game in their first 12 home dates this season compared to last season's first 12. Only the Miami Marlins have suffered a larger per game decrease (10,588).

This is a staggering number. Assuming for argument's sake that it holds, that's over 600k fewer fans this year. Average ticket price is around $40, although I assume the empty seats are the lower priced tickets. Even you assume around $30 or so, that's around $20m in lost revenue from last year just on tickets.

Attendance figures are usually way different than ticket sale figures. I can't imagine they actually have an 8K deficit per game in unsold seats?

Edit: nevermind someone else said the same thing

I was thinking the other way. That the 31K was the paid number and the actual attendance was actually lower, but maybe not

Trent Steele wrote:

The Phillies averaged 7,895 fewer fans per game in their first 12 home dates this season compared to last season's first 12. Only the Miami Marlins have suffered a larger per game decrease (10,588).

This is a staggering number. Assuming for argument's sake that it holds, that's over 600k fewer fans this year. Average ticket price is around $40, although I assume the empty seats are the lower priced tickets. Even you assume around $30 or so, that's around $20m in lost revenue from last year just on tickets.

They will have less revenue from tix sales this year but that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has gone to the games the past 3-4 years and sat next to the many people who really weren't there for the game. Also, with the freaking cold weather you really aren't going to draw a huge walk-up crowd. No matter what happens with ticket revenue this year the upcoming TV deal will help balance out any loss eventually (not that the owners look at things that way).

FTN wrote:i know what you are saying. you're saying they should just play out the string for the next 3 years, until the current core retires, and hope for the best. and you think that will be entertaining. i dont think that will be entertaining at all. i think this team has major issues that 1 or 2 moves won't paper over, and that fluking our way in to a playoff spot is going to be difficult.

God I wonder what fans of the the Angels, Natinals and Blue Jays are saying.

Ratings go down and the new TV deal won't be worth as much.

Well this sure was a fun read.

I thought the winter strategy of "half-measures" was appropriate and that Amaro was correct to assert that they'd rise or fall with the half-dozen guys making all the money. So far: splat.

If they aren't looking contenderish by June 1, burn it to the ground. Trade Lee, trade Papelbon, trade Doc, trade Rollins and Utley and Chooch if they want to go. Everyone but Hamels. They're all going to done by the time the team is next ready to contend. (A depressing thought exercise: consider how many guys on the current roster likely will be part of the next Phillies playoff team. Then currently in the organization.) If you can get rid of any part of Howard's salary, do it. He'll be dying to go by then.

At that point, Charlie will quit. I promise he's not interested in a rebuilding team. Let Ryne try it. Play Galvis and Brown, promote Asche and Joseph if they look ready, Morgan, etc. Then start thinking about who to flip next winter for some established talent.

dajafi you're looking at about 15k-20k attendence with that squad

philliesphhan wrote:dajafi you're looking at about 15k-20k attendence with that squad

If they're 15 under in early June, that will be true anyway. If you're going to lose, lose young and cheap.

Maybe I'm unusual here but I'd rather see something different. I think part of our collective frustration is the easy memory of when they didn't suck and didn't play like morons.

I wonder if our roster will become Cole Hamels and the others.

I love how a week ago I was a wussy for saying in the Time to Tear it Down thread exactly what FTN and others are saying here...

I'll say it again:

Ruiz and Utley should bring some kind of decent return along the Ethan Martin/ Joseph line given their premium positions, Utley's health and performance this year (.904 OPS) and expiring contracts - they should be dealt.

Rollins doesn't have a huge remaining commitment and Is still serviceable at a tough position - should bring back something decent even if you have to pick up a few bucks. (SF?)

Papelbon should yield something even if you have to give money...Tigers? Lee is the same...more $$ picked up, the better the prospect, maybe can get on 50-100 type prospect for him.

Howard is an anchor and I think we are stuck with him, just come around to platooning him with Ruf or JMJ as soon as possible.

Everyone else can stay unless they are good enough to Ttract more than fringe guys in return. Play Ruf, Brown and Galvis every day for the whole year no matter what.

The hope is (1) top5/top 10 draft picks for a couple of years and hope to get a refresh of star caliber. Hopefully, the staff of Hamels, Biddle, one of Morgan/Martin/Watson and two backed guys with young bullpen of Bastardo/aumont/DeFratus/Simon/etc is enough to carry the hitting with Howard/Ruf, Galvis, Quinn, Brown, Joseph, Revere, Franco/Asche in 2016.

There is no other viable path.

the best route would be to try and do as close to a full roster turnover as possible involving dealing off the big team roster for new prospects and trading out of our current prospect cesspool for a few castoff type / reclamation project / flyer type big leaguers (NOT ben reveres)

Here's an honest question for everyone. If the Blue Jays are willing to take on even more salary, would you send Howard and Lee to Toronto for the albatross Buehrle contract?

count me among the surprised if there is anything like a burn-down, regardless the record come June.

Move howard if at all possible; move one of the aging pitchers, and puckerface. have Revere chauffeur them to their next stop, if he's still around after next week.

that's about it.

The Phillies still have one of the best if not the best 1-4 starting rotation in baseball. We shouldn't be talking about tearing it down, we should be talking about adding to the offense. The Phillies don't have enough in the farm system to sustain the current success past its expiration date so I would say double down on what you have and trade whatever value you have in the minors at the trade deadline to improve the current team.

I don't think the team is as bad as they've looked. Halladay is looking good, Ruiz is coming back. I don't see how Revere is suddenly this awful compared to last year. Even if he doesn't get better, plug Mayberry into CF and he can at least be serviceable. Hope/Pray 1 or 2 of Howard/Ruf/DYoung/Brown will be decent. Then pick up an OF like DeJesus or Soriano at the deadline. 2nd wild card baby.

If they trade Utley, I am out. I will become a fan of the Los Angeles Trouts.

No middling prospect is worth having Utley retire on another team.

bleh wrote:I don't think the team is as bad as they've looked. Halladay is looking good, Ruiz is coming back. I don't see how Revere is suddenly this awful compared to last year. Even if he doesn't get better, plug Mayberry into CF and he can at least be serviceable. Hope/Pray 1 or 2 of Howard/Ruf/DYoung/Brown will be decent. Then pick up an OF like DeJesus or Soriano at the deadline. 2nd wild card baby.

Soriano is a good name, imo. I'd look to take on money rather than lose prospects

bleh wrote:I don't think the team is as bad as they've looked. Halladay is looking good, Ruiz is coming back. I don't see how Revere is suddenly this awful compared to last year. Even if he doesn't get better, plug Mayberry into CF and he can at least be serviceable. Hope/Pray 1 or 2 of Howard/Ruf/DYoung/Brown will be decent. Then pick up an OF like DeJesus or Soriano at the deadline. 2nd wild card baby.

Soriano is a good name, imo. I'd look to take on money rather than lose prospects