etched Chaos wrote:I'd like to know this phantom list of players Jeff thinks we could've signed this offseason, for a minor league deal no less.

Take the top 50 Outfielders in OPS in AAA, remove the ones who are prospects and the property of other teams. Then add in about 20 outfielders from the majors last year who outperformed a .657 OPS in left field and signed for minor league deals. That's your list.

There is something uniquely awful about Juan Pierre starting for the Phillies. I don't think jeff's out on much of a limb on this one.

I think Jeff is close to switching his allegiance to the Nats.

i fucking hate pierre. the fact that he's our starting LF is a disgrace

etched Chaos wrote:

Barry Jive wrote:Willingham doesn't suck, but yeah he would have cost a lot of money.

should of got Cuddyer

I'd hate to think of the #$!&@ that would've ensued if we had got Cuddyer for 3/31.

I'd have lost my mind with Michael F'ing Cuddyer for 3/31.

I was quite happy with Nix and Mayberry. If Mayberry moves to 1st, I can understand the need to platoon someone with Nix, but that's not Juan Pierre.

jamiethekiller wrote:i #$!&@ hate pierre. the fact that he's our starting LF is a disgrace

I love you jamie. I really do. We should stop fighting.

jeff2sf wrote:I liked the Nix signing. There is no particularly objective reason that Pierre should be starting over Nix right now. Nix was better last year. Pierre, at the point he made the team, wasn't particularly better in spring training.

It mostly came down to Pierre and Podsednik, and because of their contracts the Phils would have lost Pierre to his opt-out clause if they'd gone with Podsednik. It buys them a couple months' time while the team emerges from the MASH unit, and if Pierre sucks/Podsednik does well in AAA they'll pull the trigger. They did it with J.C. Romero last year, with Juan Castro in '10, with Chris Coste in '09. They're not opposed to cutting bait when a player serves no further use to them.

the argument is that the phils should never be in a position to put pierre/pods/nix in LF to begin with. its not a season ruiner is just completely fucking embarassing to have a 180m payroll and we have an 800k minor league FA as our starting left fielder. and its not because he's good either.

Barry Jive wrote:

jeff2sf wrote:I liked the Nix signing. There is no particularly objective reason that Pierre should be starting over Nix right now. Nix was better last year. Pierre, at the point he made the team, wasn't particularly better in spring training.

It mostly came down to Pierre and Podsednik, and because of their contracts the Phils would have lost Pierre to his opt-out clause if they'd gone with Podsednik. It buys them a couple months' time while the team emerges from the MASH unit, and if Pierre sucks/Podsednik does well in AAA they'll pull the trigger. They did it with J.C. Romero last year, with Juan Castro in '10, with Chris Coste in '09. They're not opposed to cutting bait when a player serves no further use to them.

Barry, I get the part about Pierre over Podsednik (Quick diversion, there was actual wailing and gnashing of teeth over at pp.com about Luis Montanez getting cut instead of Pierre. This is moronic, I do not want to be lumped in with them/that).

But how does it go that our left field is Mayberry/Nix and suddenly it's Pierre?

I mentioned earlier, Mayberry has been brutal this spring. I think Pierre will get playing time, but I think it's mostly posturing by Cholly to light a fire under Mayberry's ass. If Mayberry doesn't do well this year, the team's going to struggle. If he's playing poorly, he might as well not be playing.

jeff2sf wrote:

etched Chaos wrote:I'd like to know this phantom list of players Jeff thinks we could've signed this offseason, for a minor league deal no less.

Take the top 50 Outfielders in OPS in AAA, remove the ones who are prospects and the property of other teams. Then add in about 20 outfielders from the majors last year who outperformed a .657 OPS in left field and signed for minor league deals. That's your list.

I looked at the LF OPSes with minimum 300 PA and there were 37 players who OPSed more than .657 last season, I removed all who had a sub .700 OPS because choosing someone with a .690 OPS instead isn't much of an upgrade. There were 28 players, of those 28 here's how many were signed on a minor league contract; None. Then I decided to lessen the required PA's to appease you and how many did i find then... None.

So, who are these players you keep yammering on about?

Brett Gardner is starting LF for the Yanks. Ibanez is their DH. It happens.

Since you know how to find minor league deals, why don't you post all the NRIs in baseball this year and we'll go through em together and find 20.

Also, why not just not sign Juan Pierre given you don't want to pay 400K let alone 800K for a .657 OPS in left field. He had a 0.0 WAR. That's really tough to do. That means there are people walking around on the street that can be signed and could be expected to outperform him. If you don't understand replacement level I can't help you

CalvinBall wrote:Brett Gardner is starting LF for the Yanks. Ibanez is their DH. It happens.

But Brett Gardner is awesome in the field and has a career 83% SB success rate

Juan Pierre is fucking terrible at baseball

jeff2sf wrote:Since you know how to find minor league deals, why don't you post all the NRIs in baseball this year and we'll go through em together and find 20.

Also, why not just not sign Juan Pierre given you don't want to pay 400K let alone 800K for a .657 OPS in left field. He had a 0.0 WAR. That's really tough to do. That means there are people walking around on the street that can be signed and could be expected to outperform him. If you don't understand replacement level I can't help you

No, it's 5 fucking am and I'm stuck doing the hard-work for you, so fuck that I'm going to sleep.

Oh fuck off with the patronising comments. So I'm not frothing at the mouth over Juan Pierre being the rumoured opening day starter at LF, don't treat me like a simpleton.

I'll happily lay money on Pierre not exceeding 150 PA's in LF for this club, because frankly I think it's case of him being used as a tool to get Mayberry raking again and to act as a stop gap until the platoon is actually ready to go in LF.

what the hell just happened in here

Oh btw Jeff, Glue and Benny Fresh had less WAR's than Pierre last season, so really he's already an upgrade on last season.

jeff2sf wrote:That means there are people walking around on the street that can be signed and could be expected to outperform him. If you don't understand replacement level I can't help you

these sentences back to back are really funny

Barry Jive wrote:

jeff2sf wrote:That means there are people walking around on the street that can be signed and could be expected to outperform him. If you don't understand replacement level I can't help you

these sentences back to back are really funny

Even funnier when you consider Carl Crawford had 0 WAR last season too.

Once Juan does something good none of you are allowed to be happy about it.