Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

Because I said so brah

Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

I mean seriously. What a fucking douche. I would venture to guess that - worse case scenario of both NL series going the distance - 10 of the 12 games will be started by Oswalt, Hamels, or Halladay. So, somewhere around 65-70% of the innings in the playoffs will be pitched by those guys. Madson/Lidge probably pitch another 10-15% of the innings. The Phillies defense is outstanding. No team in the NL can match this. None. Not SF. Not anyone else.

Now, understanding that the Phillies offense isnt what it used to be, name me the NL team that has a better offense in the playoffs. Reds? OK, I'll buy that. The Phillies are astronomically better in every other aspect than the Reds. Giants? Padres? Braves? (Rockies are toast, so I'm not going to count them).

This guy is a jerkoff asshurt #%##sucker than go #$$##% his mom.

Trent getting his groove back.

Phillies will be ranked 19th by marinersgraphs this winter. Even after going 11-0 in the playoffs

Napalm wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

Because I said so brah

This might be a good example of a Sabernumber guy who looks at numbers and hasn't yet developed an ability to put them into context.

Because the Phillies have played so many sub-replacement killer types this year -- and the fact that some of their guys were not playing well for the middle part of this season, I'm sure their overall numbers are not that great.

On the pitching side we had Moyer; Bad Joe Blanton and Kendrick as 3/5ths of our rotation. And Madson was bad and then broke his toe and Lidge was hurt and then bad for a while.

Now, as has happened every season for a while now -- our heroes have added a starting pitcher (and again this year it's another ace) and the offense is starting to gel.

Defensively, they are also playing great now -- and they weren't earlier in the year.

So Cameron may very well be looking at overall numbers and not putting any more thought into it than that. You see that with Sabernumber people sometimes.

Cameron is obviously not a deep thinker. He rated the Mariners as the #6 organization and has written other dumb stuff as well I'm sure. Hell, I live up here and I don't read him -- I just don't care about him one way or the other. (He has at least raised the understanding of local media and fans regarding the fact that there are new and cool ways to look at baseball when he's on the radio -- I don't think Philly has anyone like that. Wow -- that would be a great gig for one of you guys. Joe Table or the Zoo with Roy Milt guy (he's funny) or one of the TGP guys would work. (I'm an idea man -- I can't stop them)).

Anyways, Cameron can probably whip out some VORP/WAR/
WoBA type stats that show the Phils aren't that great. But he'd be wrong.

New stats and computer numbers and that stuff are really good and helpful. but you have to think some for yourself as well. The best of the new school blogger type writers do that. Some of BPs new guys (and some of their older guys as well) have been doing this pretty good. Bill James was always good at it. Cameron probably isn't.

Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

That has to be a joke? What a disgrace of a human being.

Goddamnit you got me all pissed off right now. This is why I can never can get totally board with the stat-based community, even though I usually agree with what they are saying. The reason he is so asshurt is that Rube and the Phillies basically do everything completely the opposite of what a guy like Cameron would recommend (see #6org) and yet they excel. Rather than question whether maybe he's a piece of shit and his viewpoint is wrong, he takes digs at the Phils and questions their legitamicy because they CANT BE THAT GOOD IF THEY'RE NOT DOING IT THE DAVE CAMERON WAY. It's a direct repudiation of everything he believes in, as is the fact that the Mariner suck donkey balls and probably won't score 500 runs this year.

Trent Steele wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

I mean seriously. What a $#@! douche. I would venture to guess that - worse case scenario of both NL series going the distance - 10 of the 12 games will be started by Oswalt, Hamels, or Halladay. So, somewhere around 65-70% of the innings in the playoffs will be pitched by those guys. Madson/Lidge probably pitch another 10-15% of the innings. The Phillies defense is outstanding. No team in the NL can match this. None. Not SF. Not anyone else.

Now, understanding that the Phillies offense isnt what it used to be, name me the NL team that has a better offense in the playoffs. Reds? OK, I'll buy that. The Phillies are astronomically better in every other aspect than the Reds. Giants? Padres? Braves? (Rockies are toast, so I'm not going to count them).

This guy is a jerkoff asshurt #%##sucker than go #$$##% his mom.

There. You see how Trent did that? That's what Cameron lacks -- perspective. Trent writes good too and is funny. Trent should have a blog but he most likely couldn't take the pay cut.

smitty wrote:

Napalm wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

Fangraphs chat wrote:Question: Why do you seem to be one of the few (if not the only) baseball analyst/bloggers who won't recognize the Phillies as HUGE favorites in the NL playoffs?

Dave Cameron: Because they aren't? Their rotation is good, everything else is just okay.

Because I said so brah

This might be a good example of a Sabernumber guy who looks at numbers and hasn't yet developed an ability to put them into context.

Because the Phillies have played so many sub-replacement killer types this year -- and the fact that some of their guys were not playing well for the middle part of this season, I'm sure their overall numbers are not that great.

On the pitching side we had Moyer; Bad Joe Blanton and Kendrick as 3/5ths of our rotation. And Madson was bad and then broke his toe and Lidge was hurt and then bad for a while.

Now, as has happened every season for a while now -- our heroes have added a starting pitcher (and again this year it's another ace) and the offense is starting to gel.

Defensively, they are also playing great now -- and they weren't earlier in the year.

So Cameron may very well be looking at overall numbers and not putting any more thought into it than that. You see that with Sabernumber people sometimes.

Cameron is obviously not a deep thinker. He rated the Mariners as the #6 organization and has written other dumb stuff as well I'm sure. Hell, I live up here and I don't read him -- I just don't care about him one way or the other. (He has at least raised the understanding of local media and fans regarding the fact that there are new and cool ways to look at baseball when he's on the radio -- I don't think Philly has anyone like that. Wow -- that would be a great gig for one of you guys. Joe Table or the Zoo with Roy Milt guy (he's funny) or one of the TGP guys would work. (I'm an idea man -- I can't stop them)).

Anyways, Cameron can probably whip out some VORP/WAR/
WoBA type stats that show the Phils aren't that great. But he'd be wrong.

New stats and computer numbers and that stuff are really good and helpful. but you have to think some for yourself as well. The best of the new school blogger type writers do that. Some of BPs new guys (and some of their older guys as well) have been doing this pretty good. Bill James was always good at it. Cameron probably isn't.

No. This issue is that the Phillies directly repudiate his baseball belief system. They are a threat to his status as guy-who-doesn't-have-any-experience-in-baseball-yet-can-tell-you-how-to-build-a-winning-organization. He has to knock the Phillies because the Phillies knock him, threaten his viability. It's not any more complicated than that.

Trent Steele wrote:The reason he is so asshurt is that Rube and the Phillies basically do everything completely the opposite of what a guy like Cameron would recommend (see #6org) and yet they excel. Rather than question whether maybe he's a piece of $#@! and his viewpoint is wrong, he takes digs at the Phils and questions their legitamicy because they CANT BE THAT GOOD IF THEY'RE NOT DOING IT THE DAVE CAMERON WAY.

Exactly. And it's as closed-minded as the traditional analysis they abhor. I liked the stat guys much better as insurgents.

i'm gonna go grab a smoke and a glass of oban

No. This issue is that the Phillies directly repudiate his baseball belief system. They are a threat to his status as guy-who-doesn't-have-any-experience-in-baseball-yet-can-tell-you-how-to-build-a-winning-organization. He has to knock the Phillies because the Phillies knock him, threaten his viability. It's not any more complicated than that.

I'll buy that Trent because -- like I said, I don't read him and don't know or care much about him. But I do believe he can whip out some stats to "prove" his point.

Our playoff rotation is just "good" in the same way that Dave Cameron has had one sexual encounter (with a woman) in his life.

phatj wrote:I don't like High Hopes.

Take it to the Full Retardation thread, Brutus.

HillMD wrote:Our playoff rotation is just "good" in the same way that Dave Cameron has had one sexual encounter (with a woman) in his life.

what

By the way, read through Law's chat today, and he seemed to have the same notion I've had for a while: he doesn't totally buy into Amaro's "we're an old-time scouting operation and that's it" smokescreen.

Cole awfully smiley on DNL quick 6.

td11 wrote:

HillMD wrote:Our playoff rotation is just "good" in the same way that Dave Cameron has had one sexual encounter (with a woman) in his life.

what

Yeah, that makes no sense at all.

More appropriate dig would be the rotation is "good" just like the M's offense is only "bad" and not historically awful

kimbatiste wrote:

td11 wrote:

HillMD wrote:Our playoff rotation is just "good" in the same way that Dave Cameron has had one sexual encounter (with a woman) in his life.

what

Yeah, that makes no sense at all.

i'm so into my GRE analogies right now, i read that sentence like 30 times just to make sure

Supposedly Salisbury said he knows the RH-hitting OF Amaro will pursue to replace Werth. Did anyone else hear/read that?