smitty, good stuff. (I can generally take long posts from those who don't habitually make them.) I can buy that Moyer is "unique." But I think Shore's question, and certainly mine, is why you'd give him a two year deal when in all likelihood you don't have to do so.

I love the guy. I want him back. I want him to be a Phillies, in uniform or street clothes, for life, if possible. But as great as he is, as much as we all like him, doesn't the calendar eventually win?

karn wrote:Mets and Nats are both very in on Bradley

(As an aside, that's who I'd like to see in LF)

Phil Bradley, right?

karn wrote:Jon Garland is getting 'heavy sleeper interest' from teams like Houston who see him as 'plan 9' should none of the top starters fall their way

Bradley cant play the field.

He cant.

And he wont.

We should sign Adam Dunn.

mozartpc27 wrote:

karn wrote:Mets and Nats are both very in on Bradley

(As an aside, that's who I'd like to see in LF)

Phil Bradley, right?

Bill

CFP wrote:

mozartpc27 wrote:

karn wrote:Mets and Nats are both very in on Bradley

(As an aside, that's who I'd like to see in LF)

Phil Bradley, right?

Bill

brasky?

Actually, I would like to see Milton Bradley on the Phillies too. I'd take the risk on him playing in the field, and you could let Dobbs play against RHP once a week or so, to help keep Milton injury free.

FTN wrote:Bradley cant play the field.

He cant.

And he wont.

We should sign Adam Dunn.

Don't need to get more left handed.

mozartpc27 wrote:

FTN wrote:Bradley cant play the field.

He cant.

And he wont.

We should sign Adam Dunn.

Don't need to get more left handed.

Clogs the bases, strikes out too much, etc.

Dunn doesnt have big platoon splits.

I want the team to get better, not just worry about which side of the plate the guy bats from.

karn wrote:Mets and Nats are both very in on Bradley

(As an aside, that's who I'd like to see in LF)

He would be a great fit. He's a switch hitter with power. Put him between Utley and Howard or behind Howard.

FTN wrote:Dunn doesnt have big platoon splits.

I want the team to get better, not just worry about which side of the plate the guy bats from.

Even so, I think you want a player who can play everyday and whose strength is hitting lefthanded pitching, someone Charlie will feel comfortable placing between Utley & Howard in the lineup, so teams can't bring in one lefty specialist to retire or at least greatly reduce the power-effectiveness of our two best hitters. Over the long haul, it's better strategy to make other teams make a choice to either burn two lefties to get Utley & Howard out late or take their chance pitching a lefty to a right handed hitter who murders left handed pitching.

"We're moving on to pursue other opportunities," GM Frank Wren said. "We're no longer actively pursuing Jake Peavy."

from MLB.com

dajafi wrote:smitty, good stuff. (I can generally take long posts from those who don't habitually make them.) I can buy that Moyer is "unique." But I think Shore's question, and certainly mine, is why you'd give him a two year deal when in all likelihood you don't have to do so.

I love the guy. I want him back. I want him to be a Phillies, in uniform or street clothes, for life, if possible. But as great as he is, as much as we all like him, doesn't the calendar eventually win?

It's a great question from Shore and he might be 100 percent correct. On the other hand, Moyer has done this in the last four seasons:

200 IP -- 98 ERA +

211 IP -- 104 ERA +

199 IP -- 92 ERA +

196 IP -- 118 ERA +

Although that isn't an Ace pitcher, when you start listing pitchers who can match that you run out of names surprisingly quickly. Is it a certainty that no team would want a guy like that, regardless of his age?

A two year deal locks him up early maybe. That can be a good thing.

The Phils' trade for and subsequent extension of Moyer's stay with our heroes has looked brilliant so far. But it's weird. Because he is going to be all done at some point and it's impossible to say when because he is so unique. So when you sign him you have a very good chance of looking stupid (although after him being counted out so many times over th last 20 years I'm not sure I'd pay much attention to any "I told you so" talk). But if he has another Moyer good year, you look like a genius again.

Signings and trades and stuff aren't made in isolation. One move leads to another. Getting Moyer signed might very well be something that the Phils need to do in order to move to the next step.

If it takes a two year deal to get this done than maybe it's not such a bad thing. If he would willingly sign for one than that is something else. I don't know the answer to that but I don't think many others do either.

Dear Jamie Moyer,

You are historically unusual.

Love,
Baseball Prospectus

5th image of a Google image search for Emil Brown...

The lovely Kelly Hu

(borderline NSFW)

FTN wrote:Dunn doesnt have big platoon splits.

I want the team to get better, not just worry about which side of the plate the guy bats from.

How do you define a big platoon split?

smitty wrote:

FTN wrote:Dunn doesnt have big platoon splits.

I want the team to get better, not just worry about which side of the plate the guy bats from.

How do you define a big platoon split?

2008 was .178
Career is .098

but that includes a .931 OPS v RHP, which is pretty outstanding. An .833 OPS in his career against LHP is fine by me.

dunn's a monster and exactly the type of guy who would be a good replacement for burrell. i have no reason to think amaro even knows he's a free agent.

FTN wrote:

smitty wrote:

FTN wrote:Dunn doesnt have big platoon splits.I want the team to get better, not just worry about which side of the plate the guy bats from.

How do you define a big platoon split?

2008 was .178Career is .098but that includes a .931 OPS v RHP, which is pretty outstanding. An .833 OPS in his career against LHP is fine by me.

In three of the last four years his OPS vs. leftieswere .789; .773; and .784 which isn't really bad but i probably closer to his true level.  In those three recent years his splits were .217; .235 and .178.  The reason I asked the question is because I don't really know what a normal platoon split is. 

His OPS vs. righties were 1.001; 1.024; and .951 so the fact that his splits might be big isn't THAT big a deal.  The Phils overall were better vs. lefties than vs. righties last year so I'm not sure adding a lefty bat is so bad either. 

Dunn is a pretty good baserunner near as I can tell and he's only 29 nest year.  He is  huge and a bad defensive player.  He could be a lefty version of Pat Burrell for a couple of years.  Thats' not so bad.