To try to make the best of two less-than-great situations, it seems the consensus is that, for all his failings, Feliz is probably a 1 - 1.5 win upgrade at 3B. If they signed Lohse, he'd be a similar (if not more) upgrade over Eaton. That's a 2 or 3 win upgrade in total. Santana is really only about a 3 win upgrade over Glavine for the Mets so, if they sign Lohse, the combination of Feliz and Lohse counters Santana. This assumes (among other things) that the Werth/Jenkins combo and the move of Victorino to CF counters the Rowand loss, which I think is a fair assumption.

Sounds a bit hard to believe, but the numbers back it up.

Shore, dial back the anger. You may dislike the Phillies' brass but they aren't here. If a player stopped playing at 32 and Feliz plays at 33 how can you base his performance at 33 based on a guy who didn't get an opportunity for whatever reason? Clearly, he'll do something. Maybe you think he shouldn't. But he will. So compare him to those that did.

Come on with David Wright. You're comparing a guy who was young and projectable as a star with a guy who might be a AAAA guy. Some AAAA guys are good enough when given the shot. Some aren't. If you don't see the downside of an inconsistent Helms who had a big drop last year and a fringe guy like Dobbs then you're just trying to be negative for negative sake.

Last year Feliz was better offensively as a third baseman than either Dobbs. He was better overall than Feliz. As 3B they combined to produce .310/.390/.700. Feliz was .290/.418/.708. I understand that you feel a Dobbs-Helms combo will be better in 2008 but they weren't vastly superior in 2007. We all wish they went out and got someone good. But they didn't consider that. Evaluate the move on the two options they clearly considered. I get that you think they made the wrong one.

Laexile wrote:Evaluate the move on the two options they clearly considered.

This is why most analysis of the Phillies is incorrect.

They set up a decision as "lesser of two evils", and people feel compelled to evaluate the decision in a vacuum, and tend to give them a break. The issue here - as with MOST poor decisions made by the organization - is not the decision itself, but the self-limiting parameters they've imposed. X or Y. A or B. Feliz or Helms. Taguchi or Roberson. Alfonseca or Mesa. And so on.

Progressive organizations have their options pasted all over a 20-sided die, and keep rolling and evaluating until they make a solid decision. The Phillies use a coin.

Everyone acknowledges that. If all we discussed on this board was whether the Phillies have poor management the threads would only be one post long. On a scale of 1 to 10 this move is at best a 3. There's no debate there. The debate here is whether it's a 3 or something less. That's what gets 14 pages.

It'll be made official at a 2 pm news conference today. I guess we'll find out who is tossed from the 40.

GrizzledVeteran wrote:It'll be made official at a 2 pm news conference today. I guess we'll find out who is tossed from the 40.

thank goodness that rumor can finally be put to bed

My guess is Ennis.

There's a short Mandel story on the signing on phillies.com, but nothing about who got moved.

Helms on 60 Day DL after being thrown under bus

I texted Wes on Mon. about this and he wrote back:

"ma ass is brunt"

Looks like Pedro has been enjoying his beer over the winter

karn wrote:I texted Wes on Mon. about this and he wrote back:

"ma ass is brunt"

An interesting tidbit from Larry Shenk's blog...

Well, it is official, Pedro Feliz is our new third baseman. He was on our radar a few years ago when Scott Rolen wanted to be traded but the Giants wouldn’t part with Pedro as part of a deal.

http://philliesinsider.mlblogs.com/

PA_Dan wrote:An interesting tidbit from Larry Shenk's blog...

Well, it is official, Pedro Feliz is our new third baseman. He was on our radar a few years ago when Scott Rolen wanted to be traded but the Giants wouldn’t part with Pedro as part of a deal.

http://philliesinsider.mlblogs.com/

Larry Shenk wrote:Critics have said Feliz has a lousy on-base-percentage because he doesn’t walk much. As fellow Dominican Juan Samuel once said, “We didn’t get off the island by walking. We got here swinging the bat.”

Anecdotes are always much better evaluation tools than statistics.

• Pedro Feliz may not be Mike Schmidt reincarnate, but here's one reason he's an important signing: The Phillies were one of only two teams in baseball last year that got twice as many errors (25) as homers (11) at third base. (Pittsburgh was the other.) "He's a hell of a third baseman," one scout said of Feliz. "And he might hit 40 home runs in that park." Then again, he might not. But A-Rod had more home runs by last April 20 than the Phillies' three third basemen hit all year combined. So at the very least, Feliz is a legit upgrade.

- Stark

If Feliz hits 40 home runs this year, I'll eat my hat...whatever that means.

phuturephillies wrote:

• Pedro Feliz may not be Mike Schmidt reincarnate, but here's one reason he's an important signing: The Phillies were one of only two teams in baseball last year that got twice as many errors (25) as homers (11) at third base. (Pittsburgh was the other.) "He's a hell of a third baseman," one scout said of Feliz. "And he might hit 40 home runs in that park." Then again, he might not. But A-Rod had more home runs by last April 20 than the Phillies' three third basemen hit all year combined. So at the very least, Feliz is a legit upgrade.

- Stark

If Feliz hits 40 home runs this year, I'll eat my hat...whatever that means.

Chicks dig the long ball.

At least Feliz will make people realize there isn't much difference between a strikeout and any other type of out when he Ks 70 times and has a .290 OBP.

I doubt that will make people realize that

phuturephillies wrote:

• Pedro Feliz may not be Mike Schmidt reincarnate, but here's one reason he's an important signing: The Phillies were one of only two teams in baseball last year that got twice as many errors (25) as homers (11) at third base. (Pittsburgh was the other.) "He's a hell of a third baseman," one scout said of Feliz. "And he might hit 40 home runs in that park." Then again, he might not. But A-Rod had more home runs by last April 20 than the Phillies' three third basemen hit all year combined. So at the very least, Feliz is a legit upgrade.

- Stark

If Feliz hits 40 home runs this year, I'll eat my hat...whatever that means.

The Phillies third basemen were worse than the best player in baseball! Soooo, that means Feliz is good!

Shore wrote:

Larry Shenk wrote:Critics have said Feliz has a lousy on-base-percentage because he doesn’t walk much. As fellow Dominican Juan Samuel once said, “We didn’t get off the island by walking. We got here swinging the bat.”

Anecdotes are always much better evaluation tools than statistics.

Although he also has a low OBP because he doesn't hit much either.