Kid,

since you're out that way, you may find this story of interest:

Seattle’s Alt-Rock Hub, Purring With Jazz


I'm just really excited about developments like this. It's my growing conviction that the present day will prove to be among the best times ever to be a jazz enthusiast. There seems to be a lot going on, everywhere

drsmooth wrote:Kid,

since you're out that way, you may find this story of interest:

Seattle’s Alt-Rock Hub, Purring With Jazz


I'm just really excited about developments like this. It's my growing conviction that the present day will prove to be among the best times ever to be a jazz enthusiast. There seems to be a lot going on, everywhere

Interesting article. Give me some more curiosity about Seattle again. I briefly lived in Seattle in 1980, right after Mt St Helens blew. I was sharing a pad with a buddy from Phila., who had been in Seattle a while.

True stories:

The apt. we shared was a weird building in transition. A few older people from a previous era, some people just passing through -- met some guys on a road trip from Boston after graduating college kind of thing. And some gays. I didn't really interact with people in the building much. The apt building was across from the Space Needle and this was my first entre in to west-coast. It felt very "white" and kind of gentler than the NYC and Phila., I knew.

Anyway, I'm walking down the hall of my apt. and hear faintly coming from a unit a few doors before mine, Moment's Notice from Blue Train. And then I hear a guy (I presumed it was a guy) practicing guitar riffs to the record. It pulled me over and I listened for a bit, and finally I was so stunned that someone in this motley building would be a jazz-head -- I knocked on the guys door.

He greeted me a little hesitantly, I quickly identified myself as his neighbor a few doors down, and that I was from Philly and an a jazz pianist - blah blah. He was hesitant but eventually invited me in. I was uper enthusiasitc to maybe meet really cool guy in to Jazz, could help introduce me to some musicians and the scene.

I come inside his pad, and he has a record player on the floor, a small amp and his guitar. Sure enough, just as I heard it, its a nice copy of Blue Train. We talk a little and he seems totally like a nice guy, normal guy. Quiet a little. And then I begin to notice -- that in lieu of much in the way of furniture the guy has stacks and stacks and stacks of magazines piled high. And they are all porn!!?!!! Holy sh** Batman. It became very awkward but I pretended to not notice but there were thousands of them. Which i realized might have been part of his hesitation.

I quickly said something to the effect of "hey man, listen I didn't mean to bust up your shedding, I'll let you get back to your Coltrane, blah blah".

Never saw the guy again.

2) I'm taking one of the many walks I'd take in the Seattle Center where the Space needle was, and I start moving toward some sounds I hear. It's the faint sounds of a tenor sax, and I realize its playing My One and Only Love, one of my favorite tunes. I traverse quite a distance, thinking I'll meet up on some slick Jazz musician guy playing for an audience and as I finally get closer, I see a guy in an area creating an echo in front of some buildings, but to my astonishment, he was wearing overalls with long salt and peppery hair and beard. He looked straight out of Appalachia. I waited a while and engaged him in a convo too. Totally nice guy. Authentic player. But could not process his persona.

drsmooth wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:

drsmooth wrote:interesting news about 2 jazz-centric flicks: the 1st a silent movie (?!?) based loosely on Louis Armstrong (jazz score), the 2nd a 2-hour feature imagining the life of Buddy Bolden, both produced by boy-billionaire Dan Pritzker of the Chicago (& elsewhere, naturally) real-estate Pritzkers:

A Silent Musical

At the end of the summer movie season, the fledgling director Dan Pritzker believes he’s got a film that will satisfy an audience unmoved by superhero sequels and 3-D extravaganzas: a black-and-white silent movie (with hints of color) based loosely on the childhood of Louis Armstrong. And for the price of your ticket, you also get music composed and arranged by Wynton Marsalis, and performed live by him and a group of 11 other musicians....

Mr. Pritzker, who shot “Louis” in tandem with his movie “Bolden” in 2007 (and spent more than $10 million in the process), originally planned to release the two films simultaneously. But he said the Armstrong film was released first because “I finished the ‘Louis’ film first.”

He added: “My wife said, you’d better do something with it or you’re going to drive me crazy.” “Bolden,” a traditional, two-hour feature with color and sound, and a cast that includes Anthony Mackie (“The Hurt Locker”) and Wendell Pierce (“The Wire,” “Treme”), will be released “when it’s ready to come out,” he said, most likely in late 2011 or 2012. (It does not yet have distribution.)

I don't what it is and has always been, about Wynton Marsalis that has left me cold?

I've said this before, but he has positioned himself and his career to try to make himself in to this generations Duke Ellington or something, like that, and the thing is.... you can't become "a Duke Ellington" by trying to be, you either are an innovator or not. Wynton has made a nice contribution to the literacy, respect, historical honoring -- he has always been "serious" and I respect both his natural skill/talent, and his serious-mindedness. (though when he was 19, he was pretentious about it), but the thing is, he hasn't invented anything new. he hasn't pushed the music forwards. he has honored the past. Not created any new pathes in to the future.

I am curious though to see these flics and hear his score.

Blanchard has done some nice scores for commercial films.

I still find his old man (pianist Ellis) is more listenable than wynton. W's in a curious position; he's a technical master whose performing is charitably described as detached (I've taken in 3-4 of his live performances; none are worth recounting), who is a prominent face of contemporary jazz yet almost entirely ignored by his contemporaries; whose compositions are critically well-regarded, but whose playing is - well, seldom even commented on anymore, it seems.

I'm interested in Pritzker's connection. The guy has money enough to make bunches of jazz-centric films if he's so inclined; I'm just hoping these 2 tentative efforts get enough attention to loosen his purse strings for further projects.

Regarding Wynton.

Some thing happens when you are one of these child prodigees. which he truly was. He was the Tiger Woods in 1980 of Jazz. He wore the suits like they did in the 60's and could play classical or Jazz and was made in to a celebrity of sorts. Doing PBS segments with Zubin Mehta, etc... he's had that career and I've always been cauitious to not be a hater just because he had success and the industry propped him up as "marketable".

He brought back the classic sound of VSOP-era and early 60's Wayne Shorter Miles style music. Think of a record like ESP. And he and a whole generation of young guys were cutting their teeth on that stuff.

Later, he became an Ellington and overall historian of the music. He could tell you by ear, who the 4th trumpet was in Ellington's band in 38. And again, respect for the scholarly chops the tech chops and for being a good ambassador in some ways for the art-form.

But when you talk about seminal innovators that moved the music forwards -- Ellington, Parker, Miles, Coltrane. You can't be a guy like that by trying. You are, or you aren't.

This is a much deeper conversation that is not appropriate for BSG even off-topic board, but I believe that the entire Arts world is in a crisis of stagnancy. The need for humans to express themselves has not stopped. The talent of humans to craft and perform at high levels is more robust than ever before. But I cannot see one new idea? Not in music for sure.

Not a single new idea since the advent of Sampling was fertile for 2 decades, and even now that has run out of steam.

I think the global connectedness has made this even more of a problem as now everyone in the world can be exposed to everyone else's culture. So that we get either newness via new combinations -- sometimes really cool and often times really just failing on both fronts, it's like let me make paella and add curry. Which is it? Paella from Spain or Curry from India? Tabla with vocals from Mali and a tenor sax and some jazz chords on piano.... it might be cool? But it might just be nothing really.

Anyway -- whatever scenes have been most fertile the last 30 years for Jazz branxhes -- I still don't see anything really new invented. And Wynton has limited himself to a zone of influence. A certain aspect of the tradition. He got the post at Lincoln Center an he has done some good stuff. A very high level of musicianship but once again he's a masestro and you either pass his tests, and gain favor or you remain on the outside. He defines who is legit and who is not and what the circle is and what the measuring sticks are.

As a composer, he has created nothing that is totally new or innovative. As a player on trumpet, he has developed no sound of his own that I hunger for. I kind of recognize his tone - or used to. But he's rarely in rotation of anything I'd listen to. Many other trumpet players with less prowess technically I'd rather isten to ...

I'm not anti-Wynton. I respect him a lot and he has made a contribution to the dissemination and scholarlyness and further high-art legitimization of the art-form. But he's not an innovator.

just found this concert tonight on youtube. I highly recommend watching all of the pieces, some really incredible stuff here. Professionally shot as well, so the video/sound quality is excellent.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsF65-otS8c[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb5Tl5Djak0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3UO74PlTQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na4sKnZ0xE8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVirFCJJco[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVdPyWLq26Y[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsjMWMDysF0[/youtube]

the guy who uploaded this has an amazing set of uploads filled with awesome jazz stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BibiAudiofil

Here's part 1 of another awesome Zorn lineup, from the same festival, again proshot with great quality video/audio. The rest of the show you can find on the right on the related links

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEIoESmWQM[/youtube]

Philly the Kid wrote:This is a much deeper conversation that is not appropriate for BSG even off-topic board, but I believe that the entire Arts world is in a crisis of stagnancy. The need for humans to express themselves has not stopped. The talent of humans to craft and perform at high levels is more robust than ever before. But I cannot see one new idea? Not in music for sure.

Not a single new idea since the advent of Sampling was fertile for 2 decades, and even now that has run out of steam.

I think the global connectedness has made this even more of a problem as now everyone in the world can be exposed to everyone else's culture. So that we get either newness via new combinations -- sometimes really cool and often times really just failing on both fronts, it's like let me make paella and add curry. Which is it? Paella from Spain or Curry from India? Tabla with vocals from Mali and a tenor sax and some jazz chords on piano.... it might be cool? But it might just be nothing really.

I'm not sure that lack of innovation over a relatively short period (and I'm not even sure you're correct about that, but nevermind) is an indication of a crisis. And I totally disagree about your global connectedness bit--miscegnation is a wonderful thing, and we can't expect all experiments to succeed. But there have been wonderful successes--Abdul Ibrahim with S. African Jazz, the constant mixing of latin and jazz. The most vibrant music comes from places like the US and Brazil that are open to sounds from everywhere.

We are now looking at about a century where art has evolved and changed rapidly, and the demand that things be labeled and categorized has led to artistic periods lasting mere years, or even less whereas the
Baroque era for example lasted a century and a half. But there are still ideas left unexplored, and there's tons of great music being made. If the critics have nothing interesting or enlightening to say about any of it, well, then, that's liberation.

The old hierarchies, critics, conservatories, the recording industry are dying or irrelevant. And that's a good thing.

Thanks Flop. I found this little bit of awesomeness there.

<object><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qWkOxYKNZOs?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qWkOxYKNZOs?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></object>

love mehldau.

his cover of knives out is even better than paranoid android, imo

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C3A-ml85B8[/youtube]

billy martin is my fav drummer

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfHkkPPgTs[/youtube]

FTN wrote:love mehldau.

his cover of knives out is even better than paranoid android, imo

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C3A-ml85B8[/youtube]

Brad's a nice boy from a good family in - well, near - Hartford, CT

Whatzit with CT & notable jazz pianist/composer/bandleaders? Silver, Mehldau, Brubeck...

FTN, thank you for providing the link to the vidclip resource - as you & TV noted, some great stuff there.

FTN wrote:Here's part 1 of another awesome Zorn lineup

Nice stuff. Good musicians, seemed sincere, good production on the videos, but nothing super memorable that I was like, "wow, I gotta hear that again". I like Dave Douglass have a nice CD of his. Joey Baron is ok, Uri Caine has never been my favorite Jazz player, he was around Philly a long time - the Brazilian percussionist I've seen in another context with just voice and guitar and was amazing. All competent, professional, chops... but left me a little cold. Missing something for me a little. Not sure what.

TenuredVulture wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:This is a much deeper conversation that is not appropriate for BSG even off-topic board, but I believe that the entire Arts world is in a crisis of stagnancy. The need for humans to express themselves has not stopped. The talent of humans to craft and perform at high levels is more robust than ever before. But I cannot see one new idea? Not in music for sure.

Not a single new idea since the advent of Sampling was fertile for 2 decades, and even now that has run out of steam.

I think the global connectedness has made this even more of a problem as now everyone in the world can be exposed to everyone else's culture. So that we get either newness via new combinations -- sometimes really cool and often times really just failing on both fronts, it's like let me make paella and add curry. Which is it? Paella from Spain or Curry from India? Tabla with vocals from Mali and a tenor sax and some jazz chords on piano.... it might be cool? But it might just be nothing really.

I'm not sure that lack of innovation over a relatively short period (and I'm not even sure you're correct about that, but nevermind) is an indication of a crisis. And I totally disagree about your global connectedness bit--miscegnation is a wonderful thing, and we can't expect all experiments to succeed. But there have been wonderful successes--Abdul Ibrahim with S. African Jazz, the constant mixing of latin and jazz. The most vibrant music comes from places like the US and Brazil that are open to sounds from everywhere.

We are now looking at about a century where art has evolved and changed rapidly, and the demand that things be labeled and categorized has led to artistic periods lasting mere years, or even less whereas the
Baroque era for example lasted a century and a half. But there are still ideas left unexplored, and there's tons of great music being made. If the critics have nothing interesting or enlightening to say about any of it, well, then, that's liberation.

The old hierarchies, critics, conservatories, the recording industry are dying or irrelevant. And that's a good thing.

I'm not writing any ore super long posts on BSG even here on something where I'm very qualified. But you mis understood me on a couple things -- I'm not saying that mass exposure of all cultures via global communication tools is a bad thing. I'm just saying that it has had an effect, and thus far that effect is not to naturally push regional local art forms forward on their own progression but more toward diluting them with outside input or making poutpourri. Not every instance is like that, but many are.

I'm not invested in any institution or way things have been before. What I said and firmly believe, is that arts has hit a wall. Their is new work. Some of it clever, some of it cathartic or political - and thus relevant to time and place, and some of it well well crafted or executed. But there is nothing in music, film, art, poetry, writing, dance -- that is moving the art-form forwards right now. We've hit a wall.

You can see continuums of how one thing lead to the next to the next. In music, you can look at approaches to harmony or rhythm or intrsumentation, technology -- there isn't a single thing being made that is the "next step" for any genre.

You can't have Miles and Coltrane without Parker or Ellington. There is no analog to that right now. The last thing that happened was the advent of digital audio, and sampling. And new art-forms emerged musically. But that was not fertile enough to allow for more than about 2 decades.

I have a lot more I can say on this topic but this isn't the forum for it. And long P-t-K posts are frowned upon at BSG.

Maybe you're qualified to talk about jazz, certainly moreso than I am, but I don't think you have anything to back up your belief that art has hit a wall.

I think Larry Coryell might be my favorite jazz guitarist.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ8GS4y8FP4[/youtube]

Barry Jive wrote:Maybe you're qualified to talk about jazz, certainly moreso than I am, but I don't think you have anything to back up your belief that art has hit a wall.

Absolutely can back it up. But we'd need to get some terms and definitions straight so we weren't talking at cross purposes. I'm going to venture to say I've consumed more art than most of you on BSG, and spent more time around it over a longer length of time. I started in high school at a very serious level. I was 15 and going to black box spaces with all kinds of avante garde stuff. I've studied stuff, followed movements all over the world.

I didn't say no one is making art, more art is made than ever before. And a word like "innovation" means something to me perhaps different than to you. I'm looking for logical next steps or even a leap or paradigm shift.

In music, what can be done with 12 tone equal temperament is exhausted and that is the overwhelming majority of what is produced whether its a punk tune from a band in Oklahoma, a tv commercial during Mad Men, or a contemporary classical symphony.

Sub-genres may appear here n there, but point me to any sub-genre in rock, world, jazz, electronica -- that is entirely NEW. Never heard before and not derivative or some composite of other genres? Or has put a meld together in a way that is so innovative that it goes beyond being a mere sum of the parts and leaps fowards as something new on its own? I've heard stuff in the last 20 years or even 10 maybe 5 that fit that, but not for at least 5 years now....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dfKT_HZ7V0&feature=related[/youtube]

somebody mentioned guitar?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYOgiA5qVI0&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Cm8XlVwWI&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFqiDcvRW2Y&p=475AF07CA7FAC008&playnext=1&index=3[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkTCycmsy6s&feature=related[/youtube]

The idea that art has hit a wall is out there, and has been out there a long time. And if you have a kind of whiggish or perhaps even marxist view of history, where things develop and come to some end, there are reasons for holding that belief.

The problem with the conclusion, as I noted before, is that it's based on a relatively brief moment of time. If you knew where art was going next, it would already be there. (I'm not being cryptic here. Imagine a new kind of music--something no one has ever heard before...once you've imagined that new music, it already exists, assuming you have the ability to execute what's in your head.)

So much has happened in the last 100 years in the arts that I think there's plenty of interesting stuff to be done working through those many ideas.

Curiously, this attitude was pervasive among physicists in the 19th c--they believed they had figured everything out and there was no interesting work to be done, just some pesky little but inconsequential anomalies to be ironed out. They were wrong. And not just a little wrong, but almost as wrong as it is possible to be.

But in the end, I reject the idea that any of this matters. Art history may be over, why should anyone care?

Philly the Kid wrote: I'm going to venture to say I've consumed more art than most of you on BSG, and spent more time around it over a longer length of time. I started in high school at a very serious level. I was 15 and going to black box spaces with all kinds of avante garde stuff. I've studied stuff, followed movements all over the world.

I have to try hard to keep a sense of humour when I read you spouting this crap. I really can't understand why the fuck you don't like football, given that it would allow you to be even more elitest back in the states and even more high and mighty telling everyone else in the world about what they should think about their own shit. You're a west coast, left wing imperialist. You should have been working for the Colonial Office for Queen Victoria back in the 1800s. You would have fitted right in.

Fuck's sake.

It really beggars belief.

hell, people thought art was over when the Sistine Chapel was finished