I've read 4 different takes on this story, and none of it makes any sense what so ever. I can't get my head around the idea that the shooter, who unequivocally caused the death of the child, escapes any penalty. I've not seen anything that indicates that the mother was armed, so self defense seems absurd.

The indictment against Jones, unsealed on Thursday, says Jones “intentionally caused the death of .... unborn baby Jones by initiating a fight knowing she was five months pregnant."

I can see that murder might be difficult to prove, but this account would put it on the table for me.

According to authorities, Jones was the aggressor in the dispute that day and continued to press the fight even after Jemison had gotten into her vehicle to try to get away. It was then that Jemison got hold of a gun and fired a shot at Jones to stop the attack.

Of course someone recorded the whole even apparently.

Most complete account I've found.

Pretty bad night for Biden from what I could tell. I'm trying to see if I can recover my shower thoughts and spit them out here.

The crowd, aka old white Floridians, seemed to give Joe plenty of a boost. And while we watched these debates in 2015 and thought Trump was making a fool of himself, there are just tons of old white people out there. Biden didn't perform well, but when it comes to the ballot box, I just don't see any way he loses SC or Nevada. He'll do fine in PA, etc. A lot of these people's minds are made up, and this is the electorate, and they like Biden. I'm very curious to see how this all plays out, but it was easy to cast Trump as a buffoon with debate performances, and it's easy to do that with Biden, too. But I just don't see how this does a ton of damage to him, apparently, much like it didn't do any damage to Trump.

CFP wrote:Pretty bad night for Biden from what I could tell. I'm trying to see if I can recover my shower thoughts and spit them out here.

The crowd, aka old white Floridians, seemed to give Joe plenty of a boost. And while we watched these debates in 2015 and thought Trump was making a fool of himself, there are just tons of old white people out there. Biden didn't perform well, but when it comes to the ballot box, I just don't see any way he loses SC or Nevada. He'll do fine in PA, etc. A lot of these people's minds are made up, and this is the electorate, and they like Biden. I'm very curious to see how this all plays out, but it was easy to cast Trump as a buffoon with debate performances, and it's easy to do that with Biden, too. But I just don't see how this does a ton of damage to him, apparently, much like it didn't do any damage to Trump.

Keep in mind the Democratic primary electorate is different from the Republican one.

They should’ve just done four debates this week. People polling 1, 8; 2, 7; 3, 6; 4, 5 could’ve been paired together with everyone else randomly allotted.

I watched some of the debate last night, trying to get a sense of what the non Bernie/Biden cantidates are brining. Agree with the take that Harris came of well and everyone else was meh or worse. The funniest part of the evening was after Buttigieg spoke about the police shooting in his town and, I don't know who it was, just kept saying/shouting "you should fire the police chief" and they had a camera angle over the shouter's shoulder and Buttigieg was staring at him with a look in his eyes like he wanted to run across the stage and smother the life out of him.

The debates basically confirmed the big dogs. Beto made zero splash. And we'll see the polling but Castro may have been elevated a bit.

When the dust settles Biden is still the inevitable nominee best positioned to knock off Trump in the swing states.

Media outlets all seem to be giving Harris a nice boost for her back and forth with Biden, but I actually thought his “I was a public defender, you were a prosecutor” response was a pretty good rebuttal.

Can’t wait to see Joe get the nom, knock off Trump, and get down to not changing anything fundamentally.

Gimpy wrote:Can’t wait to see Joe get the nom, knock off Trump, and get down to not changing anything fundamentally.

That's fine, as long as we don't end up with a Supreme Court with seven conservative justices. I was fairly comfortable with the status quo. I don't wish to live in interesting times. We've had enough of that these past three years.

Gimpy wrote:Can’t wait to see Joe get the nom, knock off Trump, and get down to not changing anything fundamentally.

It has taken decades to walk into this forest. It's going to take time to walk back out. Until we elect a Democrat -- even Joe Biden -- we haven't yet even turned around.

Gimpy wrote:Can’t wait to see Joe get the nom, knock off Trump, and get down to not changing anything fundamentally.

That kind of thinking got Hillary elected, so hopefully that's not the prevailing narrative

The problem is unless Joe is willing to kneecap McConnell and take pretty bold steps to minimize the impact of global warming, take on Wall Street and income inequality and do some other things to undo the damage that the Republicans have done to our courts and democratic processes, we won't be getting back to anything like normal.

Biden is nothing more than a somewhat avuncular Hillary Clinton who has benefited from being Obama's sidekick and some clever memes on social media.

He isn't going to pull in enough Trump voters to offset the lack of enthusiasm he generates among progressives.

slugsrbad wrote:

Gimpy wrote:Can’t wait to see Joe get the nom, knock off Trump, and get down to not changing anything fundamentally.

That kind of thinking got Hillary elected, so hopefully that's not the prevailing narrative

He’s the one who tried selling himself by saying that nothing would fundamentally change when he’s elected. I’m not deriding him, I’m just embracing the campaign slogan.

TenuredVulture wrote:He isn't going to pull in enough Trump voters to offset the lack of enthusiasm he generates among progressives.

That's really hard to know in the context of the Electoral College.

Grotewold wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:He isn't going to pull in enough Trump voters to offset the lack of enthusiasm he generates among progressives.

That's really hard to know in the context of the Electoral College.

Yup, it's not like he is going to lose to Trump in liberal havens like NY and the three West Coast states. I think it's more important to appeal to the centrists than the progressives. That has been the winning ticket for Dems since the 70s. The last progressive Dem president was FDR.

Obama was a progressive.

Werthless wrote:Obama was a progressive.

Eh, in a different era he could have run as a Republican. I guess by modern standards you could make the argument that he had progressive tendencies.

Eddie Jordan wrote:Media outlets all seem to be giving Harris a nice boost for her back and forth with Biden, but I actually thought his “I was a public defender, you were a prosecutor” response was a pretty good rebuttal.

I didn't watch it, but it's interesting to know that Biden was a public defender in 1969. Fifty years ago. That's nearly 2 AOC lifetimes.

Ken Cuccinelli, the acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, said on CNN on Thursday night that a widely circulated photograph of a migrant father and his 23-month-old daughter who drowned on the banks of the Rio Grande was tragic, but that it was the father’s fault they died

That's classic Cuccinelli. This is just one of the many reasons he is hated near and far. His lack of sympathy, and empathy is the stuff of legend.