Even in state tuition is so ridiculous now

jamiethekiller wrote:would you go to college today?

Interesting question.

When I went to college and grad school tuition (both private universities) seemed like a lot. Although my family wasn't wealthy, they were more or less able to afford to send me to expensive schools with the help of minor scholarships in college (about $700 per year) and with my working part time with a small ($5,000) loan in law school. Tuition has increased eight- or nine-fold since I started college 45 years ago. Would my parents have the resources and would my salary be enough to cover the increased costs? I don't know the answer to that question.

Since in my mind a college education was a given even back then, I suppose I'd want to go to college. I guess the real questions that would be facing me today would be which college could I afford and what would my student loan indebtedness mean for my future.

I think that's the real issue today: What does student indebtedness mean to our society as a whole and what is the effect when salary and wages which could otherwise be used to buy a home, a car, etc., and save for the future mean more particularly to our economy. The current effect is to take a significant portion of those salaries and wages out of the consumer economy a huge scale and transfer the wealth to bank shareholders and colleges. Can you imagine the effect on our economy (not to mention the health and wellbeing of young adults) if all those student loan payments were put back into the consumer economy and/or used for savings and investment?

td11 wrote:I change my answer to what ju said. I'd go to UD (in state tuition is a must) for chem engineering, way better job prospects coming out

Actually knowing what I know now I'd have gotten into a diff field entirely I think, maybe computer engineering or electrical eng.

I'm a ChemE dropout

It's worked out for me but I realize that I was very fortunate to be at a nearly mature start-up that offered me a lot of opportunity for my first job (lab tech doing super basic stuff like environmental monitoring, gram stains, water testing, etc.) I shudder to think where I'd be today if I started somewhere else. Luck plays a frightening role in life.

I would say there are probably about two or three dozen private schools worth the full tuition. Importantly, those schools also have the most generous need-based financial aid, so the only people who really have to answer the question "Is Princeton worth it" are people from very affluent families who manage to get into Princeton, and by and large those people are going to do well in life regardless.

It's important to keep in mind though that many schools offer substantial tuition discounts in the form of merit aid, so those schools might be worth it too, depending on final cost.

And though skyrocketing tuition and student loan debt are serious problems, it's still the case that the ROI for college is pretty solid. I certainly think people should consider cost and use strategies such as attending community colleges for two years to minimize costs.

Finally, I do see lots of student doing rather foolish things with their money--by and large the students at my university are not wealthy, yet many of them drive cars that easily cost 30k. Many schools have spent boatloads of money on ever fancier dorms and other student amenities (the army of people now working in student affairs is mind blowing in my opinion) which contributes to costs as well.

There's long been a sense where college tuition is a kind of Veblen good, and though that might be changing, colleges may be slow to react.

I went to a state school and had a scholarship that paid 75% of tuition because I'm S-M-R-T

TenuredVulture wrote:I would say there are probably about two or three dozen private schools worth the full tuition. Importantly, those schools also have the most generous need-based financial aid, so the only people who really have to answer the question "Is Princeton worth it" are people from very affluent families who manage to get into Princeton, and by and large those people are going to do well in life regardless.

It's important to keep in mind though that many schools offer substantial tuition discounts in the form of merit aid, so those schools might be worth it too, depending on final cost.

And though skyrocketing tuition and student loan debt are serious problems, it's still the case that the ROI for college is pretty solid. I certainly think people should consider cost and use strategies such as attending community colleges for two years to minimize costs.

Finally, I do see lots of student doing rather foolish things with their money--by and large the students at my university are not wealthy, yet many of them drive cars that easily cost 30k. Many schools have spent boatloads of money on ever fancier dorms and other student amenities (the army of people now working in student affairs is mind blowing in my opinion) which contributes to costs as well.

There's long been a sense where college tuition is a kind of Veblen good, and though that might be changing, colleges may be slow to react.

think this is very true. whats the difference between working 70 hours a week as a retail manager and working 40 hours a week making the same or possibly a LOT more money. The alternative to having a lot of debt is MUCH worse.

This isnt' the 70s/80s/90s when getting money and having credit was this huge ordeal. Not sure how much debt really affects your borrowing power(house/car loans). feel like my very in debt fiance could walk into any bank right now and walk out with a 300k mortgage and no one would bat an eye.

Until there is a better credentialing system to prove that one has the work ethic and intelligence to thrive in the workforce, most employers will continue to only look at the college educated for most professional jobs.

I'd still go to college, and my kids will go to college. It's hard to get a shot at a highly paid profession without it. We'll see if my kids are handy, and would consider a trade. HVAC repair won't be outsourced overseas.

White House will stop disclosing visitor log. Love the transparency of this administration.

somewhat related to college, i worry often about automation for jobs that most people probably dont even think of as such. my job will be fine for a while but even at its core, its analyzing a lot of data and turning it into words and a general argument. so i guess a robot could do that one day. not soon though.

the girl im dating basically spends all day looking at spreadsheets and numbers of past data/sales and projecting future sales. and im like holy shit your job is going to be absolutely gone in like 5-10 years if i'm being generous (i dont voice this).

jamiethekiller wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:I would say there are probably about two or three dozen private schools worth the full tuition. Importantly, those schools also have the most generous need-based financial aid, so the only people who really have to answer the question "Is Princeton worth it" are people from very affluent families who manage to get into Princeton, and by and large those people are going to do well in life regardless.

It's important to keep in mind though that many schools offer substantial tuition discounts in the form of merit aid, so those schools might be worth it too, depending on final cost.

And though skyrocketing tuition and student loan debt are serious problems, it's still the case that the ROI for college is pretty solid. I certainly think people should consider cost and use strategies such as attending community colleges for two years to minimize costs.

Finally, I do see lots of student doing rather foolish things with their money--by and large the students at my university are not wealthy, yet many of them drive cars that easily cost 30k. Many schools have spent boatloads of money on ever fancier dorms and other student amenities (the army of people now working in student affairs is mind blowing in my opinion) which contributes to costs as well.

There's long been a sense where college tuition is a kind of Veblen good, and though that might be changing, colleges may be slow to react.

think this is very true. whats the difference between working 70 hours a week as a retail manager and working 40 hours a week making the same or possibly a LOT more money. The alternative to having a lot of debt is MUCH worse.

This isnt' the 70s/80s/90s when getting money and having credit was this huge ordeal. Not sure how much debt really affects your borrowing power(house/car loans). feel like my very in debt fiance could walk into any bank right now and walk out with a 300k mortgage and no one would bat an eye.

I guess I lived through a different 70's, 80's and 90's than you. It was no great ordeal to get credit or a mortgage back then. In fact if anything, getting a mortgage today is at least as difficult and probably more so than back then, especially with all the additional regulations coming out of the crash.

These days underwriters are more scrupulous than ever in making sure their mortgages are fully buttoned up for sale on the secondary market and for securitization. In addition it used to be in the old days that if you could scrape together the funds for your down payment and closing costs you were good to go. These days, though, more and more mortgage programs require that, in addition to sufficient funds to close, you need to establish that you've got sufficient funds in reserve to cover your first 6 months mortgage, taxes and insurance.

Your fiancée may indeed be able to get a mortgage, but she'll have more hoops than ever to jump through and, if she's as in debt as you suggest, the amount of her mortgage will be significantly limited by her back-end ratio (no vulgar innuendo intended).

JUburton wrote:somewhat related to college, i worry often about automation for jobs that most people probably dont even think of as such. my job will be fine for a while but even at its core, its analyzing a lot of data and turning it into words and a general argument. so i guess a robot could do that one day. not soon though.

the girl im dating basically spends all day looking at spreadsheets and numbers of past data/sales and projecting future sales. and im like holy #$!&@ your job is going to be absolutely gone in like 5-10 years if i'm being generous (i dont voice this).

this creates opportunities up the food chain though. Someone's gotta understand the projections and write the code to do it. Just like in factories- people gotta design, build, program, and maintain the automatons.

TBF i've never lived through those times. just that everything i remember hearing is that "cash is king" and all the griping my parents made over my formative years.

The robots will end up writing the code too. If they haven't already (they have).

jamiethekiller wrote:TBF i've never lived through those times. just that everything i remember hearing is that "cash is king" and all the griping my parents made over my formative years.

I think there's truth to what you're saying. To zoom out a bit, it seems like the world economy peaked almost 20 years ago and no one wants to give any of it back

Guys, make out a break out thread. This thread is for belittling and battering our precedent precluding and preempting President who is pompous and plainly an ass.

Bucky wrote:

JUburton wrote:somewhat related to college, i worry often about automation for jobs that most people probably dont even think of as such. my job will be fine for a while but even at its core, its analyzing a lot of data and turning it into words and a general argument. so i guess a robot could do that one day. not soon though.

the girl im dating basically spends all day looking at spreadsheets and numbers of past data/sales and projecting future sales. and im like holy #$!&@ your job is going to be absolutely gone in like 5-10 years if i'm being generous (i dont voice this).

this creates opportunities up the food chain though. Someone's gotta understand the projections and write the code to do it. Just like in factories- people gotta design, build, program, and maintain the automatons.

that's the general counter to automation but this smart automation is very different than automating a car factory. and they both have real, immediate effects, regardless.

slugsrbad wrote:White House will stop disclosing visitor log. Love the transparency of this administration.

uhm, when did they start?

Slowhand wrote:The robots will end up writing the code too. If they haven't already (they have).

yep. the earnest forecasts based on the notion that there will 'always' be jobs requiring mid-level analytical skills are positively quaint. Ownership, and your connection to it, has always been important and will increasingly be so. Skills have always mattered less than loyalty; the divergence will increase

drsmooth wrote:

slugsrbad wrote:White House will stop disclosing visitor log. Love the transparency of this administration.

uhm, when did they start?

Previous administrations, and this one had said they would, now they have finally admitted they won't.