Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Werthless » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:18:31

pacino wrote:he's said he won't vote on his own nomination, but i'm not sure there's a mechanism to stop it if he wanted to.

Interesting, thanks for the link on Kerry. I had no idea that this was an issue. (I still don't care if he votes, but I can understand why some do)

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Bucky » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:21:36

as much as i hate to say this, i think he has a duty to vote to represent his constituents.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:25:17

pacino wrote:Turkey SAYS they've detained 763 people affiliated with ISIS

much like what is slowly happening in the US, one cannot believe what the government says, so who actually knows?

In other news, Ergodan is solidifying his hold over major Turkish companies


This why I'm glad Turkey is part of the travel ban.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby PSUsarge » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:04:26

Sort of a follow up to a previous conversation re: the H1B visas but anyone have an opinion on all of this?

Working in tech, I see both sides. On one hand, it gives American companies the advantage of pulling from the highest value (best performance for lowest cost) employee pool, which is a good thing. The savings realized could be reinvested into the company (which employs mostly American workers, in theory) or could go to other American jobs (really no way of knowing).

I think it also speaks to the education gap in the U.S. right now (~3/4 of all comp sci and EE grad students at U.S. schools are not from the U.S.). Many of those in the manufacturing industry whose jobs have been offshored and/or automated technically have the opportunity to learn technical skills they could apply to jobs of the future (vs. fighting for the past to return, which it won't).

On the other hand, though, it (in theory) harms some U.S. tech workers by allowing those companies to pay less for an imported or outsourced worker.

Consider:
A research report by Goldman Sachs estimates that 900,000 to a million H-1B visa holders now reside in the United States, and that they account for up to 13 percent of American technology jobs.

In 2014, 13 outsourcing firms accounted for one-third of all H-1B visas. They use a loophole in the current first-come, first-served lottery system to flood the applicant pool with their candidates. In many cases, those candidates are paid slightly more than the $60,000-a-year minimum salary required by the program for dependent companies seeking a waiver from having to recruit Americans first — but less than what American technology workers make.


Obviously changing the education system and culture surrounding the areas that are low in employment when such a gap exists is a massive challenge, though, which I understand too.

Full NYT article - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/busi ... =djemCIO_h

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:08:04

Bucky wrote:as much as i hate to say this, i think he has a duty to vote to represent his constituents.


he can take, basically, 3 actions that could be said to "represent his constituents":

- He can vote in favor of DeVos appointment

- He can vote against DeVos appointment

- He can abstain from voting regarding DeVos appointment


Neither he nor anyone else "knows" what "represents his constituents" - that's a story he tells to justify whateverthefuck it is he actually does
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Bucky » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:11:05

re your second paragraph: There IS a way of knowing. They put that $ savings into....WAIT FOR IT......PROFITS!

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby PSUsarge » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:14:37

Bucky wrote:re your second paragraph: There IS a way of knowing. They put that $ savings into....WAIT FOR IT......PROFITS!

Right, but financial health is somewhat important to maintain or increase employment, no?

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Stay_Disappointed » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:23:48

PSUsarge wrote:
Bucky wrote:re your second paragraph: There IS a way of knowing. They put that $ savings into....WAIT FOR IT......PROFITS!

Right, but financial health is somewhat important to maintain or increase employment, no?


If the work needs to be done you need workers no matter your financial health. Businesses don't hire people out of the goodness of there heart just because they have a lot of money
I would rather see you lose than win myself

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby traderdave » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:27:51

It won't mean shit but I just sent this to McCain (who still has not made any public statement on DeVos and continues to be a pain in Trump's ass so I irrationally believe he could be swayed):

Dear Senator McCain –

I imagine you are receiving thousands of emails just like this one and know that you will not see most of them. Still, I am writing as I have always held a great deal of respect and admiration for you and your service to our country, both in the Navy and Congress. I can still vividly recall your comments correcting a supporter who called then-Senator Barack Obama an Arab during the 2008 presidential campaign - that took an enormous amount of courage and it may well have cost you votes. But, you knew it was the right thing to do and so you did it, consequences be damned.

I am asking you to once again do the right thing and join your colleagues, Senators Collins and Murkowski, in voting against the confirmation of Betsy DeVos as the Secretary of the US Department of Education. Mrs. DeVos is grossly underqualified to head the department charged with helping develop our nation’s most precious resource – our children. I have no doubt you are fully aware of the many criticisms leveled at Mrs. DeVos but I want to emphasize that her “background” would not qualify her to even teach in nearly all of our nation’s nearly 16,000 school districts, let alone become Secretary of the DoE. While I sincerely applaud Mrs. DeVos’ financial contributions and activism on behalf of underserved students; that money, that activism does not qualify her for the top job.

Let me state clearly that I am not anti-charter schools or vouchers; I actually believe both have a place in our overall education system. However, they are not, as Mrs. DeVos seems to think, a panacea for failing school districts. And neither, frankly, address the disease underlying our nation’s failing schools – poverty. As was made painfully clear during her nomination hearing, Mrs. DeVos severely lacks the breadth of understanding and/or experience required to oversee the nearly $210 billion in education funding requested in President Obama’s 2017 budget. They are tired anecdotes but not knowing the difference between proficiency and growth or that IDEA is a federal mandate that protects our special needs students or not acknowledging that our educational institutions should be held to the same accountability standards should be grounds for immediately disqualification.

In closing, I ask that you vote “No” on Mrs. DeVos’ confirmation. I thank you for your time in reading this note and wish you the best.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby PSUsarge » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:35:34

Warszawa wrote:
PSUsarge wrote:
Bucky wrote:re your second paragraph: There IS a way of knowing. They put that $ savings into....WAIT FOR IT......PROFITS!

Right, but financial health is somewhat important to maintain or increase employment, no?


If the work needs to be done you need workers no matter your financial health. Businesses don't hire people out of the goodness of there heart just because they have a lot of money

My point is more that a financially healthy company can afford to maintain existing operations - work that "needs to be done" - AND invest in growth/diversification projects - work that SHOULD be done but, when you're struggling financially, often gets cut or otherwise set aside.

Example - my customers who are doing well financially are the ones actively working on improving and developing (keeping and adding people in the process), the ones who aren't are cutting people and focusing on getting through the day.

Re: the H1B conversation - my point is more that the cost savings the program generates COULD be going back to projects that employ other US workers and/or prevent (further) cuts from being made. Financial health also makes these companies more stable and attractive to foreign workers, allowing them to pick from the best possible talent pool.

Again, on the flip side, companies could be exploiting the H1B to simply get the same thing they *could* get in the US, but for less money.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:57:11

Insourcing: American Lose Jobs to H-1B Visa Workers

Since October of 2014, Disney aggressively used “guest workers” for low-wage staffing to replace American workers. The H-1B, a 3-year work visa, allows foreigners to enter the country for specific jobs. Originally, H-1B visas were structured to bring in highly skilled, uniquely talented individuals if the American labor pool ran dry. But since 1990, employers have been abusing the visa program to reduce payroll and maximize profits.

Gary Beach, of the Wall Street Journal said the H-1B visa “was intended to complement, not replace American workers. It’s gotten out of hand.”

Americans are losing jobs to foreigners and training their replacements.

Disney laid off 850 American workers, some of whom were given 90 days to train their replacements with the threat of losing their severance pay if they didn’t stay to the end. “We all felt humiliated when the foreign workers sat next to us and watched everything that we did,” wrote one Disney employee going through the experience. The training sessions prove that the H-1B workers don’t hold special skills that American workers lack. “If our own pool of IT professionals were so incompetent, then why would companies like Disney have us train our replacements and spend months teaching them?” wrote the displaced worker.

So many staff spoke Hindi during their training period that a departing employee remarked, “I really felt like a foreigner in that building.”

Disney calls the practice “knowledge transfer” whereby IT professionals chart the step-by-step processes of the job, audiotaping conversations and recording their computer screens. “We were then astonished as everything that we did on our job was documented and read right back to us for further critiquing.” By the end of the 90 days, new workers had an instruction manual to which they could refer after the Americans left.

Employers Have Reasons to Abuse Foreign Guest Visas

Carly Fiorina is legend for replacing American workers with low wage visa workers at Hewlett-Packard. Employers aren’t required to pay minimum wages, don’t have to offer benefits, and social security taxes are waived for five years, reducing costs by 17 to 21.5% of their total salaries, saving employers billions of dollars annually. High tech giants Google, Xerox, and Facebook have taken advantage of H-1B workers.

Corporations such as Toys ‘R Us, Xerox, Molina Medical, Pfizer, and Microsoft used H-1B “guest” workers to reduce their payroll costs. Utility company Southern California Edison laid off 500 employees, warning SCE workers to train their replacements in 90 days or they wouldn’t receive severance.

The Numbers of Replaced American Workers are Staggering

In 2015, the number of visas issued to all immigrants crossing the borders legally was almost 11 million, according to statistics collected at Foreign Service Posts.

Supposedly, the government has set a cap of 85,000 new H-1B’s each year for the entire country. But many workers come in using other types of visas such as:

OPT: Optional Practical Training
F-1: student
B-1: business
J-1: exchange visitor
CPT: (Curricular Practical Training) interns who are recruited later
Q: Special Disney-invented visa for workers who are “authentic to the Epcot experience”

Workers then switch to an H-1B. Switches are not recorded as part of the 85,000 cap and there are no checks and balances in place to reign in visa clearances.

The Department of State, who issues worker visas, reports figures for all 16 different types of work-eligible visas, showing that 70 million have been issued since 2007.

When the Government Accountability Office studied the H-1B visa program in 2011, they reported reasons why the numbers of guest workers are impossible to track:

The total number of H-1B workers in the U.S. at any one time—and information about the length of their stay—is unknown, because (1) data systems among the various agencies that process such individuals are not linked so individuals cannot be readily tracked, and (2) H-1B workers are not assigned a unique identifier that would allow for tracking them over time—particularly if and when their visa status changes.

The AFL-CIO reported in 2009 that as many as 25% of imported workers have fraudulent visas. Today, this translates to as many as 17.5 million foreign employees gaming the system.

9-11 Terrorists Arrived Here With Worker Visas

Scariest of all, the visa worker program is poorly administered. Homeland Security doesn’t screen applicants at the airport, so visa holders gain entry at airports, making a wall at the border obsolete.

“The main, legitimate criticism right now — which is one we would level as well — is that the accountability mechanisms are not fully integrated and not seamless,” says Dean Garfield, President and CEO of the Information Technology Industry Council.

When the Government Accountability Office reviewed the H-1B program in 2011, they wrote “a recent Department of Homeland Security study reported that 21 percent of the H-1B petitions they examined involved fraud or technical violations.”

Potential Terrorists in Key Positions

In March, 2006, David Huber, a worker who was replaced at ComEd in Chicago, testified in front of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Border Security, “Two of the three individuals who replaced me were from China. As part of my job, I had access to all the data communication switches that control the electrical grid for the Chicago area. Anyone with this access could shut down the entire telecom operations for the power company and possibly the power grid itself. It is very likely that my replacements will return to China, taking with them detailed knowledge about the inner workings of our electrical grid system. After the recent controversy over our ports, I can’t believe that Congress thinks this is a good idea.”

Corporations with Record Profits Cut American Jobs

Disney posted $7.5 billion in profit in fiscal year 2014, a month after major layoffs in October 2014. The company continued to lay more Americans off until 850 lost their jobs from Orlando, Florida to Anaheim, California.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Bucky » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:02:51

it's one of those unique things that both the conservative (NO IMMIGRANTS!) and liberal (DECAYS PREVAILING WAGES!) bases are against, but politicians (INCREASE PROFITS!) support.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:09:03

considering Trump staffs many of his businesses using J1 and H2Bs I doubt those will be curtailed; I'd imagine using the H1B would be more politically beneficial and he (and bannon for 'national' reasons) would probably use it as a cudgel against the technology sector.

i'm not a huge fan of the H1B proliferation, as it is. i do think there is an certain extent of replacing an existing work base instead of filling a void. i'm not sure the numbers on it, however, so I'd be loathe to make any generalizations. I'd probably prefer going after businesses that abuse the programs (especially J-1, which can be quasi indentured servitude if companies also provide the housing/food, etc.) rather than the visa holders themselves.

In March, 2006, David Huber, a worker who was replaced at ComEd in Chicago, testified in front of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Border Security, “Two of the three individuals who replaced me were from China. As part of my job, I had access to all the data communication switches that control the electrical grid for the Chicago area. Anyone with this access could shut down the entire telecom operations for the power company and possibly the power grid itself. It is very likely that my replacements will return to China, taking with them detailed knowledge about the inner workings of our electrical grid system. After the recent controversy over our ports, I can’t believe that Congress thinks this is a good idea.”

this would seem to be fearmongering, however. as long as they are EXTREME VETTED (USA USA USA) I don't see what problem someone coming from China presents.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:23:14

What's to stop Google, Facebook, and so forth from just setting up shop in India if they can't get the visas they want?
Be Bold!

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Bucky » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:24:25

the repatriation tariff! haven't you heard???

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby mickbayne » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:27:03

We just opened a new office in India and are hiring full-time workers for super cheap but keeping them there instead of having to deal with the H1B stuff to bring them over.

Oops, missed TV's post:

TenuredVulture wrote:What's to stop Google, Facebook, and so forth from just setting up shop in India if they can't get the visas they want?

Yeah the big companies are already doing this
Last edited by mickbayne on Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:28:32, edited 1 time in total.
Another day, another box of stolen pens.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby thephan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:28:00

Bucky wrote:the repatriation tariff! haven't you heard???


start taxing those electrons!
yawn

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby thephan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:30:23

KAC test ballooned 'Bowling Green' ahead of her interview on the TV, she threw it out there, I'm sorry, mispoke it out there with Cosmo for print/internet. Bent fact or #alternateFacts are still lies, no?
yawn

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:43:33

mickbayne wrote:We just opened a new office in India and are hiring full-time workers for super cheap but keeping them there instead of having to deal with the H1B stuff to bring them over.

Oops, missed TV's post:

TenuredVulture wrote:What's to stop Google, Facebook, and so forth from just setting up shop in India if they can't get the visas they want?

Yeah the big companies are already doing this



fine, fine, fine but if we start seeing an uptick in ShipSticks parcels from those locations your US locations are gonna be surrounded by guys in ill-tailored black suits
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:44:15

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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