The larfs in this thread were top notch, and did much to assuage my anxiousness whilst waiting outside sick kids a+e for Wizlette+Monkeywiz (he'd tried running down a slide, gone flying, lost two teeth and then blacked out, so he was having to be checked out for concussion).

Sorry Smitty, but LG has you beat for soldierly-style laughs. He is now officially my favourite american soldier.

Wheels Tupay wrote:I'm just confused about why the Chechens hate the Irish so much?

Professional Jealousy. We perfected carbombs, they had to resort to poxy suicide vests.

(WizFact: My da used to teach at the same school as the guy who devised the carbombing campaign by the IRA in the 70s. Carpentry teacher).

cartersDad26 wrote:so the picture is coming into focus that the older brother went back to Russia and came back radicalized and turned the family onto it including the mother who went from wearing western clothes to traditional muslim garb.

Dunno that it will be that straightforward. If he's 26 now, and they've been in the states for 7 or 8 years, then he would have been in Dagestan during his teenage years when things like Beslan and the Moscow Theatre Massacre were happening against the background of the Chechen insurgency in Dagestan and neighbouring areas. They're all predominantly muslim there, have been for centuries, but the driving force behind those acts of terrorism was chechen seperatism. Guardian mentioned the following:

A YouTube account that appears to have been run by Tsarnaev includes a playlist devoted to "terrorism", including one video in English titled The Emergence of Prophecy: The Black Flags from Khorasan. He also maintained a playlist devoted to Islam and one devoted to Timur Mutsuraev, a Chechen singer who sang of the republic's battle for freedom from Russia.

He also appeared to support Chechen independence: "Unless his native Chechnya becomes independent, Tamerlan says he would rather compete for the United States than for Russia," one caption reads.

It's a messed up part of the world. The Chechens and the ingush were fighting against the russians for a long, long time. Stalin called them nazi sympathisers after world war two and dumped them in the arse end of the ussr, and shipped in people to take over. By the time they were pardoned as an ethnic group and let back home, they had no land, and were discriminated against by Soviet officials.

If he didn't really care about american folk and was worked up enough about independence, wouldn't be the first time someone decided to bomb uncomprehending civilians to make a point. And I can totally see the younger lad going along because he idolises his bro and believes every word he says.

The Chechens will do their hardest to say it had nothing to do with them - they'll be shitting themselves that y'all gonnae do a Pakistan Border on them and blacken the sky with drones. Or worse, look the other way when Putin decides to give them a kicking. Again.

If you want some insight into how messed up the area is, I recommend hunting out Beslan by Timothy Phillips. He tells the story of the massacre and the history of the region (focuses more on the Ingush than the Chechens, but their stories are interlinked). Beslan will be the reason half the relatives won't believe the kids do it - still after all this time, no one knows for sure what went down, and Putin, like the fuck he is, heavily meddled in the whole response (up to and including poisoning Anna Politkovskaya to prevent her from going there report and negotiate). They're used to someone else pissing on them and telling them it's raining, and they'll have none of it.

Oh, and make sure to read Arkady Babchenko's One Soldier's War in Chechnya for a picture of a)How fucked up the conflict was and b)What a fucked up mess the russian army is. It's a great piece of war reporting.

I didn't want to say so for fear of people saying I'm making excuses for a terrorist, but I kind of see the younger kid the same way. I'd bet the older brother was the driving force behind it all and his brother just went along because he felt he had to do what his older brother wanted. Older male siblings have much more sway in some cultures than they do in ours and the younger kid seems weak. He should still rot in jail until he dies, but I do have a small amount of sympathy for the kid, assuming what I'm saying turns out to be true.

I do wish the older one had lived as well. It would have been better for him to be in prison forever than to be some kind of martyr.

He was 19 years old, not 8. I don't have an older brother, but I'd like to think at 19 I'd know that bombing a bunch of people is nothing but wrong no matter how much big bro says it's OK.

Wizlah wrote:

cartersDad26 wrote:so the picture is coming into focus that the older brother went back to Russia and came back radicalized and turned the family onto it including the mother who went from wearing western clothes to traditional muslim garb.

Dunno that it will be that straightforward. If he's 26 now, and they've been in the states for 7 or 8 years, then he would have been in Dagestan during his teenage years when things like Beslan and the Moscow Theatre Massacre were happening against the background of the Chechen insurgency in Dagestan and neighbouring areas. They're all predominantly muslim there, have been for centuries, but the driving force behind those acts of terrorism was chechen seperatism. Guardian mentioned the following:

A YouTube account that appears to have been run by Tsarnaev includes a playlist devoted to "terrorism", including one video in English titled The Emergence of Prophecy: The Black Flags from Khorasan. He also maintained a playlist devoted to Islam and one devoted to Timur Mutsuraev, a Chechen singer who sang of the republic's battle for freedom from Russia.

He also appeared to support Chechen independence: "Unless his native Chechnya becomes independent, Tamerlan says he would rather compete for the United States than for Russia," one caption reads.

It's a messed up part of the world. The Chechens and the ingush were fighting against the russians for a long, long time. Stalin called them nazi sympathisers after world war two and dumped them in the arse end of the ussr, and shipped in people to take over. By the time they were pardoned as an ethnic group and let back home, they had no land, and were discriminated against by Soviet officials.

If he didn't really care about american folk and was worked up enough about independence, wouldn't be the first time someone decided to bomb uncomprehending civilians to make a point. And I can totally see the younger lad going along because he idolises his bro and believes every word he says.

The Chechens will do their hardest to say it had nothing to do with them - they'll be shitting themselves that y'all gonnae do a Pakistan Border on them and blacken the sky with drones. Or worse, look the other way when Putin decides to give them a kicking. Again.

If you want some insight into how messed up the area is, I recommend hunting out Beslan by Timothy Phillips. He tells the story of the massacre and the history of the region (focuses more on the Ingush than the Chechens, but their stories are interlinked). Beslan will be the reason half the relatives won't believe the kids do it - still after all this time, no one knows for sure what went down, and Putin, like the fuck he is, heavily meddled in the whole response (up to and including poisoning Anna Politkovskaya to prevent her from going there report and negotiate). They're used to someone else pissing on them and telling them it's raining, and they'll have none of it.

Oh, and make sure to read Arkady Babchenko's One Soldier's War in Chechnya for a picture of a)How fucked up the conflict was and b)What a fucked up mess the russian army is. It's a great piece of war reporting.

Great stuff, Wiz, thank you.

Earlier you stripped Smitty of your personal BSG military command earlier in favor of LG. The latter contributed a a terrific link on the Chechnya context that seems well-paired with your post here.

I'm sure you have a cushy, well-deserved Pentagon job in mind for General Smith. We should probably have a parade

Slowhand wrote:He was 19 years old, not 8. I don't have an older brother, but I'd like to think at 19 I'd know that bombing a bunch of people is nothing but wrong no matter how much big bro says it's OK.

I was thinking about as in depth as I could on this one. If someone looks up to you they will trust you no matter how crazy you are. People that love you will defend you.

I feel a little pity for white hat.

Thank you sir.

I appreciate your brand of humor as well. Living in the UK for as long as I did gives me a natural affinity towards those ilk.

Wizlah wrote:The larfs in this thread were top notch, and did much to assuage my anxiousness whilst waiting outside sick kids a+e for Wizlette+Monkeywiz (he'd tried running down a slide, gone flying, lost two teeth and then blacked out, so he was having to be checked out for concussion).

Sorry Smitty, but LG has you beat for soldierly-style laughs. He is now officially my favourite american soldier.

The Russians and Chechens were extraordinarily brutal towards each other in both wars.

IIRC, the Russians lined up an entire Corps worth of artillery and basically razed Grozny to the ground before they introduced ground forces. This was the second invasion, the first resulted in the Russians getting their ass kicked - Wiz has some good recommendations.

Apparently Dzhokhar is a Kendrick Lamar fan:

Jahar ‏@J_tsar 28 Mar
No one is really violent until they're with the homies

Slowhand wrote:He was 19 years old, not 8. I don't have an older brother, but I'd like to think at 19 I'd know that bombing a bunch of people is nothing but wrong no matter how much big bro says it's OK.

That's why I tried to point out that different cultures address these things differently. I don't have an older brother either, but if I did, I'm quite sure I would try to stop him, even if it meant going to the authorities. But I'm not from one of those cultures.

At any rate, he made his decision and now he'll have to pay for it. He should never see the light of day again.

i think its extremely unlikely he gets the death penalty.

he'll die at adx

FTN wrote:i think its extremely unlikely he gets the death penalty.

he'll die at adx

Not if Lindsey Graham has anything to say about it

Well, actually, he has things to say about it. Not sure how much he can do about it one way or another

Noted fuckwit Glen Beck is drumming up ratings by claiming he'll expose a major governmental coverup on Monday if it isnt't revealed by the administration who the initially detained Saudi national is. He's pretty easily connected to a clan of major al-Qaeda figures both imprisoned and still wanted by authorities sharing a common surname and reports have him being deported this week on security grounds after Obama and Kerry both had unscheduled meetings with the Saudi ambassador in the immediate days post-marathon bombing. First Lady also reportedly visited the dude (who was injured in the bombing himself) during her visit to Boston. At the very least it's fishy right now and if he's really being deported quite suspicious imo.

Went to breakfast this morning and the guys sitting at the table next to me were talking about how this was a planned government exercise in order to test the waters in enforcing martial law. All the sheep stayed inside like they were told. Now we're all doomed, especially when Obama gets our guns.

Anyway to be thorough the deportation rumor has been strongly denied but heads up on this becoming a talking point for conspiratorial types

Slowhand wrote:Went to breakfast this morning and the guys sitting at the table next to me were talking about how this was a planned government exercise in order to test the waters in enforcing martial law. All the sheep stayed inside like they were told. Now we're all doomed, especially when Obama gets our guns.

at what sort of establishment is such informed analysis undertaken

and does anyone there eat with utensils

what were you doing eating outside of the hours of noon-8PM is the more important question

this was good

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/19/report_ ... g_suspect/

still the best part of this ordeal: