Halladay XII: Now with Roy Halladay!

by **Woody** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:32:54

Squire wrote:One of the overriding themes seems to be that the Rube is terrified of going to arbitration. For an organization that is like 17-1 in arbitration this seems a little odd to me. Its going to be tough to generate extra draft picks that way.

RUBEN
DOESN'T
CARE
ABOUT
DRAFT
PICKS
,
SQUIRE
.
ONLY
YOU
DO
.

by **CalvinBall** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:32:55

ek wrote:i wouldn't make that deal with the yanks. lee, sabathia, burnett, pettitte? please, why make them invincible

they aren't in our league so who cares?

by **iladelphxx** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33:19

MLBTR's latest:

•The Phillies get Roy Halladay, who will take a physical today, according to Ed Price, and $6MM from the Jays. They also get Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez from the M's. (Ryan Divish of the Tacoma News Tribune confirmed that Ramirez is headed to Philly.)
•Halladay will also agree to a three-year extension that will pay him about $20MM annually through 2013, according to Stark. The extension won't affect his 2010 salary ($15.75MM) and will include a vesting option.
•The Mariners get Cliff Lee from the Phils and they could be getting more.
•The Blue Jays get pitcher Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D'Arnaud from the Phils.

Here is part of Law's scouting report on Ramirez (Partial, rest is "Insider Content"):

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4023198&searchName=law_keith&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4023198%26searchName%3dlaw_keith

Mariners' Ramirez has No. 2 starter potential

Saturday, March 28, 2009
Juan Ramirez (also known as J.C. Ramirez) is one of the Mariners' top pitching prospects and a sort of white whale for me; I chased him for a good part of spring training last year but never saw him, and finally nabbed him Friday after three-plus weeks in Arizona this year.

The 20-year-old right-hander is impressive, with No. 2 starter stuff if he can hold up in the rotation and end-of-game stuff if he ends up in the bullpen. His fastball was 91-96 mph, sitting 93-94 for three innings and then sliding to 91-93 in the fourth, which isn't unusual for this time of year since he hadn't gone past three innings in any prior outing. Most of his fastballs had good glove-side run, although he threw one at 91 with tailing life (probably a two-seamer). He threw only fastballs in the first inning and gave up a few hits as a result, but in the second he started mixing in an above-average slider at 77-80 with a very sharp break. He doesn't have great feel for it but did use it at least twice against lefties to attack the outside corner. He showed a change that was mostly straight but used the slider in almost every changeup count.

by **joe table** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33:45

Putting the Halladay part aside.....how do people feel about the now net of the Lee deal:

Carrasco, Knapp, Marson, Donald for excellent half year plus playoffs 09 of Lee, plus Gilles, plus Aumont, plus Ramirez, plus 3.5 years of BF

That's still a nice looking deal, even if you want to say they could have done a bit better in moving him now. Aumont has a lot of similarities to Knapp I think, high ceiling raw arm with injury risk. Carrasco probably better than Ramirez, but both are live armed, 6'3 guys. Gilles seems to be polarizing some opinions, but he has skills even with moderate power, and looks to be well ahead of Gose with the bat at this point, and thus a more realistic option to take over CF in 2011 when Vic walks. Marson and Donald, both sort of meh, they have value but I'm glad we traded them instead of keeping them as future backup players

I am more bothered by the Halladay end of this stuff I think. The Lee end doesn't bother me quite as much...even though like others have said, little reason not to wait and field more offers on him

by **slamjim** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33:54

Grotewold wrote:
slamjim wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
ek wrote:nypost.com

The Yankees were interested in Lee, but the asking price from the Phillies was stud prospect Jesus Montero, Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes and several prospects.

OK, that's better. But that's a huge difference from what we are purportedly getting from the Ms.

Really. If that was our asking price to one team why is this asking price so much worse?

Why not give the Angels a try? or the Rangers (though they may be cash strapped).

You think they called the Yankees but not LA or Texas?

Who knows? I'm not even sure they called the Yanks and this Post story isn't just crappola. I have a hard time believing any newspaper or writer these days.

by **Trent Steele** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33:59

slamjim wrote:
Grotewold wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
Grotewold wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:The thing I don't get is why there isn't a Lee auction? Why do these deals have to happen at the same time? Why are we limiting ourselves to Seattle? If it's not really a 3 way trade, it just doesn't make any sense

Maybe he/they love those Ms prospects.

That's a terrible way of doing business

I'm saying they shopped Lee and this is the preferred package. I don't know.

What else are we to assume? That Ruben didn't bother trying to do better?

Is this a panic move because the Angels lost Lackey and the Angels were preparing to come in with a new Halladay offer?

Even if true, that has nothing to do with the Lee trade (at least as it has been reported).

I actually have no problem with the Halladay half of the trade. It's the Lee part of it that makes me want to stick a fork in my scrotum

by **phorever** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:35:05

Grotewold wrote:
thephan wrote:There is so much speculation and so little information that it makes my head hurt. One thing is for certain is that, if true, I am not fond of the idea of Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Jason Donald, Michael Taylor and/or Domonic Brown, catcher Travis d'Arnaud, and, Kyle Drabek for Halladay...

...and three prospects from the M's. And the 2009 NL pennant.

and francisco. as i posted earlier, in a post that was far too long and rambling, francisco = marson, aumont = carrasco, gillies = donald, ramirez = knapp, making it
taylor+drabek+d'arnaud for halladay with an extension,
with prospect talent shifted from the infield to the outfield.

with my marson=francisco what we had before was
carrasco+knapp+donald for lee with no extension.

looks reasonable to me, assuming outfield depth can be turned into a ss prospect sometime soon.

by **slamjim** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:35:09

joe table wrote:Putting the Halladay part aside.....how do people feel about the now net of the Lee deal:

Carrasco, Knapp, Marson, Donald for excellent half year plus playoffs 09 of Lee, plus Gilles, plus Aumont, plus Ramirez, plus 3.5 years of BF

+ Francisco. Dude gets no respect.

by **Woody** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:35:47

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4023198&searchName=law_keith&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4023198%26searchName%3dlaw_keith

Mariners' Ramirez has No. 2 starter potential

Saturday, March 28, 2009
Juan Ramirez (also known as J.C. Ramirez) is one of the Mariners' top pitching prospects and a sort of white whale for me; I chased him for a good part of spring training last year but never saw him, and finally nabbed him Friday after three-plus weeks in Arizona this year.

The 20-year-old right-hander is impressive, with No. 2 starter stuff if he can hold up in the rotation and end-of-game stuff if he ends up in the bullpen. His fastball was 91-96 mph, sitting 93-94 for three innings and then sliding to 91-93 in the fourth, which isn't unusual for this time of year since he hadn't gone past three innings in any prior outing. Most of his fastballs had good glove-side run, although he threw one at 91 with tailing life (probably a two-seamer). He threw only fastballs in the first inning and gave up a few hits as a result, but in the second he started mixing in an above-average slider at 77-80 with a very sharp break. He doesn't have great feel for it but did use it at least twice against lefties to attack the outside corner. He showed a change that was mostly straight but used the slider in almost every changeup count.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:36:33

I really need to read Moby Dick once this is all over.

by **CalvinBall** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:36:35

ek wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
ek wrote:i wouldn't make that deal with the yanks. lee, sabathia, burnett, pettitte? please, why make them invincible

they aren't in our league so who cares?

because we could realistically play them again in the series

we just traded away our whole team. we aren't making it to the world series again.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:37:06

CalvinBall wrote:
ek wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
ek wrote:i wouldn't make that deal with the yanks. lee, sabathia, burnett, pettitte? please, why make them invincible

they aren't in our league so who cares?

because we could realistically play them again in the series

we just traded away our whole team. we aren't making it to the world series again.

We're trading no one from the big league roster ffs

by **slamjim** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:37:36

Trent Steele wrote:Even if true, that has nothing to do with the Lee trade (at least as it has been reported).

The panic may have upped the quality going to the Jays and Amaro needed to get "quality" prospects back. I think they are very related. Blanton could have gone. It appears Lee went so that they can claim they traded out equal prospects for equal prospects (which does not appear the case according to the more in the know than me people here).

by **CalvinBall** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:38:49

i need a 1 ustream right now

by **Grotewold** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:39:24

Juan Ramirez (also known as J.C. Ramirez) is one of the Mariners' top pitching prospects and a sort of white whale for me

by **TomatoPie** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:40:41

With some sports leaders (coaches or GMs), we know enough to guess when they are blowing smoke.

Buddy Ryan.

I'd love to think that there's a lot of disinformation on this one, that somehow we get Halladay without giving up Lee AND our top prospects, or that we somehow are getting more in return (Figgins).

Ruben has a marvelous track record. I just can't imagine he's turned from Ruben to rube.

by **Woody** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:41:16

You're drunk

by **CalvinBall** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:41:29

Figgins

by **snakster** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:42:23

jerseyhoya wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
ek wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
ek wrote:i wouldn't make that deal with the yanks. lee, sabathia, burnett, pettitte? please, why make them invincible

they aren't in our league so who cares?

because we could realistically play them again in the series

we just traded away our whole team. we aren't making it to the world series again.

We're trading no one from the big league roster ffs

Except for that Lee guy.

by **Squire** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:43:03

Woody wrote:
Squire wrote:One of the overriding themes seems to be that the Rube is terrified of going to arbitration. For an organization that is like 17-1 in arbitration this seems a little odd to me. Its going to be tough to generate extra draft picks that way.

RUBEN
DOESN'T
CARE
ABOUT
DRAFT
PICKS
,
SQUIRE
.
ONLY
YOU
DO
.

...and I'm the better man for it. Maybe.

SQUIRE

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Halladay XII: Now with Roy Halladay!