Just to revisit JPR's original proposal for the umpteenth time, I think we can all agree that Happ is nothing special. That doesn't mean he's without value. A decent 3/4/5 starter at a bargain price has value. But he's borderline throw-in in a deal of this magnitude.

So JPR essentially asked for two potential studs (Drabek and Brown) plus a productive, but unspectacular player (Happ) for one established stud (Halladay). That may have been a bit in Toronto's favor, but not excessively so.

It occurs to me that an fairly straightforward way to break the impasse, allow everyone to save some face and balance out the transaction would be for Rube to request (or JPR to offer) a borderline throw-in/productive player from the Jays; someone like Frasor or Bautista. Valuable, productive, but unspectacular like Happ.

Two potential studs plus one from column B for one established stud and one from Column B sounds pretty darn fair, acceptable and face-saving to me.

We all know that Halladay has a no-trade clause and apparently will only consider waiving it for teams that have a chance to win the World Series this year and next, but he has also reportedly informed the Jays that he wants to be traded to a team that plays its spring training in Florida. If this is true, and I believe it is, the ONLY teams that meet both of those qualifications are: the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Cardinals. You have to figure that the Cards just blew their wad with Matt Holliday and have neither the prospects nor the financial flexibility to add Halladay. And if you believe the reports that the Jays don't want to trade Halladay within their division (which I do), this means the Phillies are effectively bidding against themselves.

Viewed in this light, the goings-on of the last three days make a lot more sense to me now.

Amaro knows they are the only game in town on Halladay, so there's no need to meet the Jays' first official demand (Drabek, Happ and Brown). Ricciardi knows that the Phillies know that they are the only game in town on Halladay, so they are taking the hard line saying things like any trade for Halladay is going to be "painful" and also making it clear that they don't HAVE to trade him and that it's more likely that they won't.

However -- and here's the key -- if the Jays' ownership really does want to trade him now, this is exactly what Ricciardi SHOULD be doing. Since the Phillies know they aren't bidding against any other teams, he has to scare them into thinking he might just hold onto Halladay and not deal him at all.

So Amaro made an initial offer along the lines of Happ, Carassco, Taylor and Donald. But the key is that he offered only 1 of the 3 guys the Jays want the most (Drabek, Happ and Brown). And so now Ricciardi is playing the game -- leaking stuff to the Olneys, Starks and Heymans of the media saying that the two teams are at an "impasse."

In the meantime, Ricciardi is hoping that one of 2 things happens: Amaro folds, or another team that's not currently in the mix steps up with a huge offer and Halladay agrees to go there.

In reality, what I think will happen is that Ricciardi and Amaro will continue their Angry Italian vs. Hotheaded Latino stare-down for the next 3-4 days, dragging us all along for the heart-wrenching ride. In the end, Amaro will make an offer that includes 2 of Drabek, Happ and Brown, as well as some other prospects, and a deal will be made.

his full name is harry leroy halladay III

this just got a lot more epic for me

ek wrote:apparently, Leslie Gudel said sources have told her that the talk that the discussions are contentious are false

Zo tweeted something similar not too long ago.

I'll take Heyman's word over our media.

On Cy Drabek...

jrfinger stadium radar gun showed 97 mph on 13th pitch of 2nd inn. He also hit 95 and 96 a bunch ... gotta talk to the scout to see how accurate

Trent Steele wrote:FWIW, Riccardi's comments leave zero doubt in my mind that Halladay will be traded this week. There is absolutely no reason to make those kinds of statements if you're really comfortable not making the deal and are prepared to walk away. Transparent posturing.

The discrepancy in the reported offer by the Phils (Taylor, Happ, Carrasco, Donald) and whatever actually was offered is almost certainly Toronto leaking a worse deal than was offered so they can be "wowed" and "bowled over" when they ultimately take a Phillies deal, which is probably something closer to Phillies real counterproposal than what Toronto leaked.

In light of the above re the allegedly inaccurate leaked offer and the whole "contentious" crap - both of which were clearly leaked by Toronto - I'm starting to think that my half-joking statement above may turn out be closer than the truth than I could have imagined.

at the buffet table, probably...

but if I were Ruben (and it's probably good that I'm not), I would call JPR up and say, "okay, we both know you have to get rid of him or you're canned. Let's stop this shit and tand take my offer."

mstein88 wrote:We all know that Halladay has a no-trade clause and apparently will only consider waiving it for teams that have a chance to win the World Series this year and next, but he has also reportedly informed the Jays that he wants to be traded to a team that plays its spring training in Florida. If this is true, and I believe it is, the ONLY teams that meet both of those qualifications are: the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Cardinals. You have to figure that the Cards just blew their wad with Matt Holliday and have neither the prospects nor the financial flexibility to add Halladay. And if you believe the reports that the Jays don't want to trade Halladay within their division (which I do), this means the Phillies are effectively bidding against themselves.

Viewed in this light, the goings-on of the last three days make a lot more sense to me now.

Amaro knows they are the only game in town on Halladay, so there's no need to meet the Jays' first official demand (Drabek, Happ and Brown). Ricciardi knows that the Phillies know that they are the only game in town on Halladay, so they are taking the hard line saying things like any trade for Halladay is going to be "painful" and also making it clear that they don't HAVE to trade him and that it's more likely that they won't.

However -- and here's the key -- if the Jays' ownership really does want to trade him now, this is exactly what Ricciardi SHOULD be doing. Since the Phillies know they aren't bidding against any other teams, he has to scare them into thinking he might just hold onto Halladay and not deal him at all.

So Amaro made an initial offer along the lines of Happ, Carassco, Taylor and Donald. But the key is that he offered only 1 of the 3 guys the Jays want the most (Drabek, Happ and Brown). And so now Ricciardi is playing the game -- leaking stuff to the Olneys, Starks and Heymans of the media saying that the two teams are at an "impasse."

In the meantime, Ricciardi is hoping that one of 2 things happens: Amaro folds, or another team that's not currently in the mix steps up with a huge offer and Halladay agrees to go there.

In reality, what I think will happen is that Ricciardi and Amaro will continue their Angry Italian vs. Hotheaded Latino stare-down for the next 3-4 days, dragging us all along for the heart-wrenching ride. In the end, Amaro will make an offer that includes 2 of Drabek, Happ and Brown, as well as some other prospects, and a deal will be made.

What do you think of this, Werthless?

Rev_Beezer wrote:at the buffet table, probably...

but if I were Ruben (and it's probably good that I'm not), I would call JPR up and say, "okay, we both know you have to get rid of him or you're canned. Let's stop this $#@! and tand take my offer."

every day i thank God for you

and more

jrfinger so far it seems as if Kyle Drabek is a flyball pitcher... through 4IP he has 6 fly outs, 4 Ks, 3hits (2XBH).

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_ ... ef481.html

BOSTON –– Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein contacted Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi again late last week to discuss Toronto’s ace right-hander, Roy Halladay.

But in order for the Blue Jays to deal Halladay, especially within the A.L. East, Ricciardi would have to be blown away with the prospects that he would receive. Ricciardi wants Sox pitching prospect Clay Buchholz and 2008 first-round draft pick Casey Kelly, along with another top prospect, but Epstein is not willing to part ways with Buchholz and Kelly.

It appears that the Red Sox and the Yankees are both out of contention at this point. The clubs with best chances to land Halladay are the Phillies, Cardinals, Angels, Dodgers and Cubs. There’s still a chance Halladay remains with the Blue Jays.

Who is this guy? Was last week the first time he'd heard of Drabek?

ek wrote:

FTN wrote:Who is this guy? Was last week the first time he'd heard of Drabek?

is that john finger from csnphilly?

Yep

ek wrote:ok, he doesn't know a damn thing

agreed haha but i thought i'd pass along anyway

Jays source confirms Phils statement that there is no ill will between front offices. '93 World Series tensions have apparently blown over.

Zolecki

ek wrote:someone is feeding crap to stark and olney

(trying to get rid of mental image of gammons going cleveland steamer style on those two)

Finger

psst, between you and me -- if Drabek is the one keeping the Phillies from getting Halladay (based on tonight's outing), they're in trouble

:roll:

PSUsarge wrote:Finger

psst, between you and me -- if Drabek is the one keeping the Phillies from getting Halladay (based on tonight's outing), they're in trouble

Maybe that's their plan. They've intended to give up Drabek all along, but minimize the collateral damage.