Halladay IV: A New Hope

by **FTN** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 13:49:13

Brian (NJ)

There is some talk that there is great debate within the Phils' organization between those who want to "go for it" (i.e. get Halladay) and those who want to keep the prospects. Gillick seems to be one of the "go for it" club based on his recent radio comments. Any idea who might be on the other side of the debate?
Jayson Stark (1:44 PM)

To be honest, I think they all want to "go for it." They just don't want to go for it at any price. If the package for Halladay is Drabek AND Happ AND Dominic Brown AND Jason Knapp, for instance, they won't make this deal. If it's the right combination of two of the above, I think it happens.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 13:53:21

is that you brian orange?

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:07:49

Barry Jive wrote:has anyone even tried asking Halladay? i can't understand why he wouldn't just tell you if you asked.

I think MLB and the MLBPA would frown on that, being it might constitute some degree of collusion (not really actual collusion, more like improper influence or something like that).

by **Squire** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:09:59

I don't know what the average tenure of a GM is but I think you can surmise that Montgomery (on behalf of the owners) is the buy with the biggest stake in them not sucking 5 years from now.

I still think this happens. Ricciardi has done what Wade always did - talked himself to the point of having to trade the guy. We'll give up Drabek and add some other good but not great guys.

SQUIRE

by **CFP** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:11:39

Anyone else feel that if it's going to be Happ, we add Brown, but if it's going to be Drabek, we add Taylor?

by **VFB** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:17:47

happ is not going to be useful in the playoffs. we're very likely looking at playoff series vs StLouis and Chicago. both of these teams are EXTREMELY righthanded, and happ will be in uncharted territory in terms of innings by then. pedro will be very fresh, and very righthanded.

Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Pedro = WFCII
Hamels/Blanton/Happ/Moyer = heartbreak

by **JFLNYC** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:18:52

My current guess is that Riccardi wants guys who are ml-ready (or close) as possible, with the exception of OF, where's he got a logjam now. So, I'm thinking his ask is/wil be:

Happ, Carrasco, Brown, Donald, Marson

The trade off (in his mind) for not getting Drabek is to get Brown, plus two pitchers (one who's pitching successfully in the majors now, the other is at AAA).

We get to keep Drabek, Taylor and Knapp. I'm thinking just about everybody here would be on board with that trade, even though it's a lot. If my guess is right, there may be a lot riding on Carrasco's start tonight.

by **lowcountry** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:19:52

ESPN has an insider link with the headline "Rumors: Halladay now seems LAD-bound"

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:20:58

lowcountry wrote:ESPN has an insider link with the headline "Rumors: Halladay now seems LAD-bound"

That was there yesterday. Pure nonsense from a Gammons article that doesnt say anything like that.

by **FTN** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:21:13

The latest in the Roy Halladay sweepstakes has Angels owner Arte Moreno telling the Los Angeles Times his team remains interested in landing a top-of-the-line starter such as Halladay or Cliff Lee. Moreno appears willing to pay a hefty price if necessary.
"We're keeping all our options open," Moreno told the LA Times. "We don't have any financial constraints."
ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports that the Phillies are working to pull off this deal without including either their top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, or J.A. Happ. One rival GM told Stark that if the Phillies have to deal one of those two, it should be Drabek, because there's almost no recent precedent for teams winning after subtracting a significant player from their big league mix to make a major trade.
Thursday morning, ESPN Insider's Keith Law said the Brewers and the Cardinals are both still "kicking the tires" on the Halladay deal. The Cardinals may have to move Colby Rasmus, however, who Law says is an All-Star center fielder at his peak.

by **karn** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:22:43

Cards have to be out of it w/ the Holliday deal now right ok

by **Brantt** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:22:47

FTN wrote:
The latest in the Roy Halladay sweepstakes has Angels owner Arte Moreno telling the Los Angeles Times his team remains interested in landing a top-of-the-line starter such as Halladay or Cliff Lee. Moreno appears willing to pay a hefty price if necessary.
"We're keeping all our options open," Moreno told the LA Times. "We don't have any financial constraints."
ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports that the Phillies are working to pull off this deal without including either their top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, or J.A. Happ. One rival GM told Stark that if the Phillies have to deal one of those two, it should be Drabek, because there's almost no recent precedent for teams winning after subtracting a significant player from their big league mix to make a major trade.
Thursday morning, ESPN Insider's Keith Law said the Brewers and the Cardinals are both still "kicking the tires" on the Halladay deal. The Cardinals may have to move Colby Rasmus, however, who Law says is an All-Star center fielder at his peak.

Law is laughably off base.

The Cards have told the Blue Jays they have no interest bcause they can't afford him.

Heck, the Cards had to get $$$ back from the A's just to pull off the Holliday deal.

by **lowcountry** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:22:52

Trent Steele wrote:
lowcountry wrote:ESPN has an insider link with the headline "Rumors: Halladay now seems LAD-bound"

That was there yesterday. Pure nonsense from a Gammons article that doesnt say anything like that.

thanks.

/climbing back from edge of cliff

by **Grotewold** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:23:19

I am actually going to miss this shit

by **JFLNYC** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:24:09

Don't worry: There will be plenty of different shit, no matter what happens.

by **PA_Dan** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:29:35

These are glorious days to be a Phils fan. Five years ago I couldn't have even imagined a top national sports writer writing what Heyman wrote in his article this morning...

With deep pockets, their deeper reservoir of prospects and a resolve to repeat, the Phillies appear to have maintained the front-running position in the most-watched derby in baseball, with the teams exchanging names and apparently making some progress in recent days, league sources indicate.

by **stevelxa476** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:33:05

lowcountry wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
lowcountry wrote:ESPN has an insider link with the headline "Rumors: Halladay now seems LAD-bound"

That was there yesterday. Pure nonsense from a Gammons article that doesnt say anything like that.

thanks.

/climbing back from edge of cliff

They do that all the time. The other day the link said "Mr Halladay...meet Mr. Rollins", and then the story it linked to didn't even mention the Phillies.

by **smitty** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:34:39

FTN wrote:

. One rival GM told Stark that if the Phillies have to deal one of those two, it should be Drabek, because there's almost no recent precedent for teams winning after subtracting a significant player from their big league mix to make a major trade.

Didn't the Red Sox win after trading Nomah? Maybe I just forgot to take my ginko this morning but I remember that. Maybe 2004 isn't recent history.

by **HillMD** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:35:37

ek wrote:
HillMD wrote:Scutaro has played nearly 100 games at 3rd. His OBP is over 40 points higher than Feliz's, OPS over 60 points higher. I'd start the guy at 3rd base and have Feliz as the right-handed bat off the bench. Sorry all of you Feliz supporters

are you in reality or fantasy?

Charlie wouldn't do it, but Scutaro is the better player. The key word there is "I'd" as in that's what I would do.

by **Trent Steele** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 14:37:07

For those who think KLaw hates the Phils, here is his view on the Braves

Keith Law's Take
The Braves still need help, and a bat
"My gut reaction is that without a bat, the Braves can't win this division. The deficit is 8 games in the loss column, behind a clearly superior Phillies team that -- if anything -- has some upside (e.g., Hamels and Rollins should be better in the second half). That's a lot to overcome."

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Halladay IV: A New Hope