CalvinBall wrote:Someone didn't vote for him

thanks

Bobby Abreu (5.5%) just barely avoids a one & done.

Probably some guy who thinks that Mariano Rivera deserves to be the only unanimous selection (rather than a vote against Jeter).

Squire wrote:Probably some guy who thinks that Mariano Rivera deserves to be the only unanimous selection (rather than a vote against Jeter).

weird, since i can see someone thinking that a closer shouldn't be unanimously elected, but i can't see any reason to not vote for jeter, and i hate the yankees. maybe some pissy marlins writer unhappy with how things are going there?

Or wants attention.

TheAAGuy wrote:Bobby Abreu (5.5%) just barely avoids a one & done.

Sad. He'll never get the respect he should.

Nice jump in votes for Rolen

Man there were a lot of Phillies somewhere on the ballot. Cool stuff

Squire wrote:Probably some guy who thinks that Mariano Rivera deserves to be the only unanimous selection (rather than a vote against Jeter).

It was probably the guy that voted for JJ Putz.

It's probably someone who recognizes that Jeter was both great, and overrated.

Shore wrote:It's probably someone who recognizes that Jeter was both great, and overrated.

This

philliesphhan wrote:

Shore wrote:It's probably someone who recognizes that Jeter was both great, and overrated.

This

i honestly might have submitted a jeter-less ballot for that reason if i had a vote.
the better argument for leaving jeter off was made by sean forman one of the b-r founders who does have a vote: jeter is guaranteed eventual admission, so if there were 10 other truly deserving candidates badly enough in need of help in climbing the ballot fast enough to make it in, a 10-player strategic ballot without jeter could be justified. forman voted for jeter in the end, but was on the fence about jones needing help badly enough to leave off jeter.
here's the way that might have worked for me:
bonds and clemens clearly outrank jeter. that's 2.
abreu and walker clearly needed every vote they could get. that's 4. (mission accomplished)
early in the voting season, helton seemed, like abreu, to be a legit risk for one and done. that's 5
jones was at just 7.5% in 2019 and in clear danger of dropping off. that's 6
schilling would have just two more shots and needs help overcoming his big mouth. that's 7 (mission accomplished... at 70% with two more shots and a weak new class next year, he would have to shoot someone to stay out).
jones was at just 7.5% in 2019 and in clear danger of dropping off. that's 8
kent and sosa were below 20% in 2019 with just 4 and 3 years to go, and thus in desperate need of a big jump in 2020 to have any hope. that's 10 (there is new hope for kent, but too little gain too late for sosa).
rolen's 2019 percentage was alarmingly low and he needed support to avoid dropping into kent territory. that's 8. (mission accomplished. that's 11. (mission accomplished... next steps are getting above 40% is passing vizquel)
manny needs to build support asap to avoid sosa's fate. that's 12...
sheff needs to build support asap to avoid having to equal walker's improbable rise. that's 13... and i didn't yet get to vizquel or wagner! (sheff's chances now looking much better; manny's are not)
i would put rolen and manny on my ballot ahead of kent and jones, who, like wags, aren't hall guys to me.
i eventually realized that vizquel would do about as well as he deserved this year, so he would have had a lower priority jeter.
since it is pretty clear that sosa is a lost cause, my decision on the last spot would come down to sheff and jeter.
jeter would have gotten my last spot on days that my yankee-hate was at low tide.

it was probably a Marlins fan

In a sign of how things of changed, outside of the inaugural Hall of Fame class of 1936, no player was elected to the Hall on their first ballot until 1962 when Bob Feller and Jackie Robinson both went in on their first try.

stevelxa476 wrote:In a sign of how things of changed, outside of the inaugural Hall of Fame class of 1936, no player was elected to the Hall on their first ballot until 1962 when Bob Feller and Jackie Robinson both went in on their first try.

philliesphhan wrote:

Shore wrote:It's probably someone who recognizes that Jeter was both great, and overrated.

This

Agree with this. I think it's dumb that sports writers didn't believe in unanimous elections. I think it's dumb that now the two highest vote getters are 2000's era Yankees, one of which was a closer and the other was overrated. Both are still deserving members of the HOF though so it's dumb to get worked up over it either way. Hopefully this is to Steve's point that the voters are getting more progressive and just vote for the best/most deserving players and quit the sanctimonious bull shit.

phorever wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Shore wrote:It's probably someone who recognizes that Jeter was both great, and overrated.

This

i honestly might have submitted a jeter-less ballot for that reason if i had a vote.
the better argument for leaving jeter off was made by sean forman one of the b-r founders who does have a vote: jeter is guaranteed eventual admission, so if there were 10 other truly deserving candidates badly enough in need of help in climbing the ballot fast enough to make it in, a 10-player strategic ballot without jeter could be justified. forman voted for jeter in the end, but was on the fence about jones needing help badly enough to leave off jeter.
here's the way that might have worked for me:
bonds and clemens clearly outrank jeter. that's 2.
abreu and walker clearly needed every vote they could get. that's 4. (mission accomplished)
early in the voting season, helton seemed, like abreu, to be a legit risk for one and done. that's 5
jones was at just 7.5% in 2019 and in clear danger of dropping off. that's 6
schilling would have just two more shots and needs help overcoming his big mouth. that's 7 (mission accomplished... at 70% with two more shots and a weak new class next year, he would have to shoot someone to stay out).
jones was at just 7.5% in 2019 and in clear danger of dropping off. that's 8
kent and sosa were below 20% in 2019 with just 4 and 3 years to go, and thus in desperate need of a big jump in 2020 to have any hope. that's 10 (there is new hope for kent, but too little gain too late for sosa).
rolen's 2019 percentage was alarmingly low and he needed support to avoid dropping into kent territory. that's 8. (mission accomplished. that's 11. (mission accomplished... next steps are getting above 40% is passing vizquel)
manny needs to build support asap to avoid sosa's fate. that's 12...
sheff needs to build support asap to avoid having to equal walker's improbable rise. that's 13... and i didn't yet get to vizquel or wagner! (sheff's chances now looking much better; manny's are not)
i would put rolen and manny on my ballot ahead of kent and jones, who, like wags, aren't hall guys to me.
i eventually realized that vizquel would do about as well as he deserved this year, so he would have had a lower priority jeter.
since it is pretty clear that sosa is a lost cause, my decision on the last spot would come down to sheff and jeter.
jeter would have gotten my last spot on days that my yankee-hate was at low tide.

Just to prove I read your posts, Jones can't be both 6 and 8

Robo umps coming to ST. They'll be in MLB before you know it. Catcher position about to change drastically.

WhiteyFan wrote:Robo umps coming to ST. They'll be in MLB before you know it. Catcher position about to change drastically.

Drastically? I think there was a sweet spot from 2012-2016 or so, where catchers were WILDLY different in the framing ability, and some teams valued/measured it and some teams didn't. But I don't think the gap between the best framers and the worst is very large at all any more, which means it's a small factor in their actual value. It's not like you can catch Ryan Howard now that framing isn't an issue - catching/throwing/etc won't change at all.

Shore wrote:

WhiteyFan wrote:Robo umps coming to ST. They'll be in MLB before you know it. Catcher position about to change drastically.

Drastically? I think there was a sweet spot from 2012-2016 or so, where catchers were WILDLY different in the framing ability, and some teams valued/measured it and some teams didn't. But I don't think the gap between the best framers and the worst is very large at all any more, which means it's a small factor in their actual value. It's not like you can catch Ryan Howard now that framing isn't an issue - catching/throwing/etc won't change at all.

Right, but they won't need to frame AT ALL in the future so that skill is being completely eliminated. It will open the position back up to a ton of guys that were never in consideration before. The bat will become the most important quality of a good catcher. That is not the case today.

WhiteyFan wrote:

Shore wrote:

WhiteyFan wrote:Robo umps coming to ST. They'll be in MLB before you know it. Catcher position about to change drastically.

Drastically? I think there was a sweet spot from 2012-2016 or so, where catchers were WILDLY different in the framing ability, and some teams valued/measured it and some teams didn't. But I don't think the gap between the best framers and the worst is very large at all any more, which means it's a small factor in their actual value. It's not like you can catch Ryan Howard now that framing isn't an issue - catching/throwing/etc won't change at all.

Right, but they won't need to frame AT ALL in the future so that skill is being completely eliminated. It will open the position back up to a ton of guys that were never in consideration before. The bat will become the most important quality of a good catcher. That is not the case today.

So by deduction, you are saying that pitch framing is currently the most important quality of a good catcher....?