Rockinghorse wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:lol at trading wentz.

yeah this is such a bad conversation

Wentz trade is perfectly good content for 10 days before the game. There won't be any actual news to discuss until next week when Doug's KC mistress goes public

1, strongly disagree. Discussing the hypothetical trade value of Superbowl MVP Nick Foles is all fine and dandy, pie-in-the-sky, High Hopes, off-weak discussion fodder.

Discussing trading Wentz is just fucking ridiculous.

Another terrible thread.

Does no one understand what a hypothetical discussion is?

Good thing no one here has any personnel decision-making powers!

Someone posted something like that on the EMB. Just looking at some old threads:

From EMB:
1) Sudfield would have started against the Falcons.

2) Kelce would have been traded for a 7th in preseason.

3) Patrick Robinson would have been cut in training camp.

4) Pumphrey would have been put on IR with a phantom injury (well - you can't get everything wrong)

5) Jonathan Allen would have been watching from his hospital bed as Case Keenum manages to get the Vikings some momentum back in the 2nd quarter.

Trade ‘em both and sign Kaep and RGIII.

Isn't Wentz sort of following his college trajectory? Watched a championship from the bench and then won the next year as a starter? And then the year after that again? Good news here is he won't run out of eligibility until like 2030

Bill McNeal wrote:Wentz is a generational talent, having that makes you a contender every year. Look at GB, they have Rodgers and a bad coach and bad gm, but Rodgers talent transcends all that to make them a contender every single year he's healthy.

We have at the very least a good GM and good coach (probably vast understatements on both) add a top 3 QB to that mix for the next decade and you are looking at a potential dynasty. Getting rid of Wentz and relying on your FO and coach to get the right guys year after and pull the right strings year after year is definitely possible, but HIGHLY unlikely. Having a superstar stud QB can help you gloss over missed draft picks, bad FA signings in the long term, and bad playcalls/designs in the short term. No amount of Myles Garrets and future first round picks are close to the value that a guy like wentz provides to an organization.

Bill McNeal, I am in 99.9% agreement with all of this, and its inescapable conclusion: don't trade Wentz, the best you will probably do is get his equivalent in return, and that is a gamble at best. As I said, the point of having a bevy of draft picks is to find a Carson Wentz - well heck, we found a Carson Wentz! No need to go looking!

But the .01% that gives just a moment's pause to a godfather type offer is actually demonstrated in the Aaron Rodgers example you cited. I don't think anyone would disagree that, this side of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in football right now (Wentz will surpass him, maybe arguably even already has). And yet the Packers have won just one SB with him. Why? As you say, their coach sucks and their GM sucks. They stuck with Favre too long. All that is true. Also, he got hurt - in 2013 and 2017, and that cost them in both of those seasons (the Packers made the playoffs in 2013, at 8-7-1, but lost their home game - would they have had a bye in 2013 if Rodgers had started more than 9 games? Maybe.)

Only way I even consider this is if the Eagles actually win the SB this year, so right away you would have matched Rodgers' output, in a sense. And in truth, if you get lucky, you're not talking about trading Wentz to get Wentz back: you are talking about turning Wentz into a Wentz equivalent PLUS five or six other for-the-next-decade type starters.

Carson Wentz got hurt this year, and to me, on an injury that is slightly - slightly - worrisome. Not so much for the injury itself - they can do amazing things now with knees - but because of how it happened. On a non-contact play. When he is just 25. Could be just a freak accident, probably it was. He does some reckless things, he can be trained out of those, but anyway this wasn't that. But... is it a sign that a guy with a 6'5", 237 lb. frame, might have problems with those legs and knees? Did it go from completely healthy to snapped because of one freak play? Or was it frayed and weak because he didn't win the genetic lottery when it comes to his knees and those all-too-human knees therefore have to carry the load of such a big, strong guy?

If Doug Pederson coaches this team to a SB win over the Patriots with Nick Foles at the helm, I will be satisfied - pretty much I am already - that Pederson isn't just an OK coach or even a good coach but a very good coach and potentially a great one. He is paired up with a guy who sort of sucked the first time he was GM in Roseman, but who was nothing short of masterful this time. If that is who Roseman has become, and his recent performance is more indicative of future results, consider what the Eagles have, compared to the Packers, using your equation, and assuming they traded Wentz:

Great QB + Bad Coach + Bad GM (Packers) = Perennial contender

OK QB + Very Good or Great Coach + Very Good or Great GM + All kinds of extra early round draft picks = ???

I think an interesting equivalent to the hypothetical Eagles situation is the Steelers under Bill Cowher. The Steelers were consistently competitive under Bill Cowher + GM Tom Donahoe (1992-1999) and then GM Kevin Colbert (2000-Current), going 149-90-1 during that time and going to two Super Bowls and winning one, in 2005. During the run under Cowher, from 1992-2005, they had all kinds of people play QB, none of whom you'd confuse with Carson Wentz, let alone Tom Brady, until you get to Roethlisberger:

Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger

Granted, it took getting Roethlisberger to finally win that Super Bowl. But if you are looking at the Eagles, if they win this year - and I really think they are going to by the way - Doug & Howie will have already done that - without Carson Wentz, and beating the GOAT coach and QB to boot.

I know the answer is: but why settle for very good coach + very good GM + OK QB when you have the trifecta in your possession? And that's why you almost certainly don't do it. But Wentz's injury just gives me the slightest pause that maybe Wentz's health is going to be an issue going forward; unlike the Steelers, this coach and GM, in my hypothetical, will have already won the SB without that transcendent QB (only way I'd even consider this is if they win AND it's partly because or laergely because Foles plays well), and then, while you'd be losing Wentz, you'd be adding to that Steelers formula something they never had: a king's ransom of extra, high-value draft picks, with which you would obviously be able to draft another QB to replace Wentz, and really solidify the team in all kinds of areas for a decade. The best-case scenario is turning a hypothetically somewhat injury-prone Wentz into a different but very good young QB AND like half a team besides.

I don't think emotionally I could do it, certainly the fans would want to string them up, and heck they might be right, so I don't think it would happen... but to me it's just shy of "unthinkable." And if I were the GM I'd kind of want to know exactly what I could get.

But maybe that would be a mistake - know what you might get, and it might tempt you to do something stupid.

Why do I think you have a gambling addiction

Benny Lava wrote:Why do I think you have a gambling addiction

Quite the opposite. I get all of these thoughts out on message boards. I stay the hell away from gambling because I know how far south it would go how fast if I got into it.

I actually hate gambling and think it's basically terrible and that it's immoral for the state to make money off of it instead of just taxing at the appropriate level.

Basically what I am saying is: the Eagles would have reason to kick the tires on a trade. But ultimately, the risk is almost more certain to come true (Foles turns back into a pumpkin after a terrific playoff run, the guy you get to replace Wentz is the 2018 version of Tim Couch, the other draft picks don't pan out) than the "reward" (Foles is ballers for a year while you develop the next kid, the next kid learns from Foles and Pederson and steps right in and is just about as good as Wentz, at a minimum, and the other high draft picks all turn into solid young starters or better).

When the line was really big against the Vikings I almost placed my first professional bet, but then I remembered that I do not like gambling on principle.

Welcome to the site, Wolfgang!

Hmmm.

What this boils down to is the nature of that Wentz injury. If he had broken his ankle like McNabb or his collar bone like Rodgers - freak things from contact - me, that's football, and this conversation is a non-starter. But the knee just going on a non-contact injury - probably it's just a freak thing, but it is ever so slightly more troubling, at least to me. "Is this just a freak thing or a sign of things to come?" That more than anything else was my immediate bad reaction to it, once I knew it didn't come on the hit, much more so than "Oh noez! Foles!" I had some faith in Foles.

slugsrbad wrote:

Doll Is Mine wrote:Welcome to the site, Wolfgang!

Honestly, I’m usually on here on mobile and I thought it was weird (not in a bad way) that some new guy was throwing himself into the middle of conversations. It wasn’t until last night that I realized who he was.

Yeah obviously there was a slight adjustment. I can explain why to the curious via PM.

Wolfgang622 wrote:Yeah obviously there was a slight adjustment. I can explain why to the curious via PM.

I just put together wolfgang and mozart, ama

Doll Is Mine wrote:Being curious about what you might get for Wentz is like being curious about what it feels like to stick my uncut penis (4.5 inches limp) in a tank full of Oscars.

And as the spirit ascends in flight away from the soul, penance of the Foles toll, traveling forth to the boys hole, thee shriveled remains of Big Dick Nick give way to nothing but this limp dick trick

Oscars 4:5

sure you shouldn't bake the interest

that's racist!