CalvinBall wrote:

Werthless wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:I fucking hate this guy.

Talking heads are saying he had a great first 30 minutes...? Did they watch? He rambles about NOTHING.

I thought his start (maybe 15 minutes?) was good. He was composed, direct, and spoke to people's fears about the economy. When he was speaking about companies moving their jobs overseas, and then pushing his framing of NAFTA as bad for the middle class... yeah it was populist, sure. But it resonates with a lot of people, and it has enough truth in it to make it difficult to effectively counter.

I remember him rambling about trade (his only solution to fixing the economy). He doesn't know how he will get the jobs back but he will stop them from leaving, trust him. That was the only "point" he made in the first 15 minutes. So, great job by him.

Trust me. It'll be fantastic.

I also thought he conceded more of her criticisms (eg, the loan from his father) than I would have expected. I thought he would just flat deny everything. She needs to keep needling him about that and the bankruptcies. Challenge this "winner" narrative. And the thing that might really piss him off is pointing out how dumb and poorly rated his TV show was.

CalvinBall wrote:

Werthless wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:I fucking hate this guy.

Talking heads are saying he had a great first 30 minutes...? Did they watch? He rambles about NOTHING.

I thought his start (maybe 15 minutes?) was good. He was composed, direct, and spoke to people's fears about the economy. When he was speaking about companies moving their jobs overseas, and then pushing his framing of NAFTA as bad for the middle class... yeah it was populist, sure. But it resonates with a lot of people, and it has enough truth in it to make it difficult to effectively counter.

I remember him rambling about trade (his only solution to fixing the economy). He doesn't know how he will get the jobs back but he will stop them from leaving, trust him. That was the only "point" he made in the first 15 minutes. So, great job by him.

He made the point that companies move their operations overseas and can then import their goods cheaply back to the American people. Renegotiating the trade deals and increasing tariffs is how that would be stopped... change the rules of the game so that companies can't cheaply bring back their goods into the US to sell to us. That's a salient point, and may resonate with undecideds who may not know/care that much about macroeconomics, but know someone who lost a job due to outsourcing.

That's clearly just my opinion, and I am probably more "free trade" than anyone on this board, but those positions are why Trump won the primary.

Grotewold wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:As for him, I was stunned at how many times he missed very obvious openings. I had a mini panic attack when she mentioned (in response to the stamina dig) sitting before a Congressional panel for 11 hours. Granted, the email server and Benghazi weren't the only times that the Secretary of State testifies to Congress, but holy shit that was an alley oop pass that even a high school debater would've slammed home. Yet Trump was so flustered and so tired by the end of the debate that he missed it completely.

He didn't follow up on her private email apology/explanation, either, because he couldn't help but try to refute something else she said.

There were at least three times, I believe, where Trump hooked the line, but kept rambling on about another point that he never put the line in the water.

i do think the idea of NAFTA being bad is a real thing, even for those who know little about it (maybe more for those who know little about it). they know their uncle used to have a job at the local factory until it shut down and went to Mexico. NAFTA bad. Plenty of Democrats have taken his tact, too.

The way to combat this would be to explain how little it actually affected jobs (a lot of research has shown China's rise has done more than NAFTA ever did), and to try to explain how improving trade deals to make sure wages/conditions are better in other countries would be smart; i also think it's impossible to do in a debate. the TPP actually IS a good version of a trade deal and i'm not nearly as against it as I used to be after reading a lot of the rules and regulations it imposes on all the countries taking part, but it does have the issue of too much secrecy surrounding it. I think that really muddied the waters for it . Fast-track was just stupid, IMO. let it come up through the normal channels, have more openness, explain the good aspects of it and perhaps the public wouldn't have been so against it. but, we are where we are now. it's a political loser for Clinton to try to defend it. luckily, she has a moron running against her who doesn't know why he's against it beyond 'it's bad' and 'china!' even though it's specifically designed to combat China's grip on Asia.

I do think that if you explain very succinctly how increasing tariffs is bad for business and for us (increases prices, =creates a trade war, etc.) enough people will listen. Fair trade doesn't mean that free trade is bad.

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

slugsrbad wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:As for him, I was stunned at how many times he missed very obvious openings. I had a mini panic attack when she mentioned (in response to the stamina dig) sitting before a Congressional panel for 11 hours. Granted, the email server and Benghazi weren't the only times that the Secretary of State testifies to Congress, but holy #$!&@ that was an alley oop pass that even a high school debater would've slammed home. Yet Trump was so flustered and so tired by the end of the debate that he missed it completely.

He didn't follow up on her private email apology/explanation, either, because he couldn't help but try to refute something else she said.

There were at least three times, I believe, where Trump hooked the line, but kept rambling on about another point that he never put the line in the water.

i'm very glad Marco Rubio or John Kasich isn't the nominee. Ted Cruz is a loser and would've lost.

just when I am dumfounded about how anyone can actually vote for him, a 'reply all' storm hits and i realize just how stupid people are.

Bill Kristol providing a decent point into how terribly Trump did defending his businessman background, which is a huge part of his pitch. Thinks there may be an opening there that was not exploited well, if at all, in the primaries.

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

With all due respect, you are being repetitive. The folks still posting in this thread -- that haven't been run off by you -- don't like Trump. Your style is likely to make lurkers/readers who may be leaning Trump do a few things. 1) Not post in this thread. 2) Reflexively defend him --mentally -- against your rhetoric. 3) Pull the lever for Trump.

Thanks, Doc, for contributing to more Trump voters.

Werthless wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

With all due respect, you are being repetitive. The folks still posting in this thread -- that haven't been run off by you -- don't like Trump. Your style is likely to make lurkers/readers who may be leaning Trump do a few things. 1) Not post in this thread. 2) Reflexively defend him --mentally -- against your rhetoric. 3) Pull the lever for Trump.

Thanks, Doc, for contributing to more Trump voters.

I always enjoy reading his descriptions of the organism known as trump.

It's not about us, and how much we love to make fun of Trump. It's about preventing Trump from winning. IMO.

Slowhand wrote:

Werthless wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

With all due respect, you are being repetitive. The folks still posting in this thread -- that haven't been run off by you -- don't like Trump. Your style is likely to make lurkers/readers who may be leaning Trump do a few things. 1) Not post in this thread. 2) Reflexively defend him --mentally -- against your rhetoric. 3) Pull the lever for Trump.

Thanks, Doc, for contributing to more Trump voters.

I always enjoy reading his descriptions of the organism known as trump.

doc thinks of fun ways to describe The Donald but, yeah, i don't know if it's helping anything.

pacino wrote:

Slowhand wrote:

Werthless wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

With all due respect, you are being repetitive. The folks still posting in this thread -- that haven't been run off by you -- don't like Trump. Your style is likely to make lurkers/readers who may be leaning Trump do a few things. 1) Not post in this thread. 2) Reflexively defend him --mentally -- against your rhetoric. 3) Pull the lever for Trump.

Thanks, Doc, for contributing to more Trump voters.

I always enjoy reading his descriptions of the organism known as trump.

doc thinks of fun ways to describe The Donald but, yeah, i don't know if it's helping anything.

I've gotten to the point where I generally just skim his points or skip them outright.

pacino wrote:

Slowhand wrote:

Werthless wrote:

drsmooth wrote:

Werthless wrote:those positions are why Trump won the primary.

his "positions are not at all "why Trump won the primary". Institutional collapse - a long-time-in-developing cancerous rot at the core of the institutional Republican idea - is why drumpf "won the primary". Snuffling, racist, misogynist goo is what the Rs have left as a 'leader'. Responsible campaigning Rs need to find a way to repudiate everything about him.

drumpf does not have positions. drumpf has spasms. drumpf has convulsions. drumpf is a foul, twitching gob of revolting id. He needs to be expunged. Ejected. Expelled from the company of Americans.

With all due respect, you are being repetitive. The folks still posting in this thread -- that haven't been run off by you -- don't like Trump. Your style is likely to make lurkers/readers who may be leaning Trump do a few things. 1) Not post in this thread. 2) Reflexively defend him --mentally -- against your rhetoric. 3) Pull the lever for Trump.

Thanks, Doc, for contributing to more Trump voters.

I always enjoy reading his descriptions of the organism known as trump.

doc thinks of fun ways to describe The Donald but, yeah, i don't know if it's helping anything.

doc told all of us we didn't need to worry about trump getting nominated at all for like 52 consecutive primaries.