Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Aug 28, 2014 23:44:24

drsmooth wrote:jerz, you left this tweet from a balls-out lefty off your impressive list of who the fuck anyway:

Joe Scarborough @JoeNBC
Do you really believe the president doesn’t have a strategy yet? Call me crazy but I don’t want the President showing his hand to ISIS.

The question was about whether he was going to go to Congress for authorization before ordering strikes in Syria. Chuck Todd didn't ask him what his plan was. Rather than answer the question, he did a song and dance, and said we don't have a strategy. I don't really care if Obama signals his plans a bit to ISIS (certainly saying "we don't have a strategy yet" is showing your hand to ISIS in the short term) in the context of debating the pros and cons of actions with the branch of government that declares wars and whatnot. The question was about him going to Congress, and his lack of wanting to commit one way or the other there led him into sticking his foot way down his throat.

The reason the quote is gonna stick is the same reason Romney's 47% comment stuck. It rings true. Obama has looked adrift on foreign policy, especially over the last year plus. Reacting to events as if they catch him and his administration completely off guard. Not staying on the same page as Hagel and Kerry on major issues. Going back on some things he has personally pledged (the red line). It has looked like there has been no real strategy or overarching theme to any of his foreign policy. And now he's saying they don't have a strategy on one of the most important issues of the moment.

As for Scarborough, he's a professional contrarian at this point. Everyone on Twitter zigs, he zags.

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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 23:51:51

It's as if he's dealing with completely unpredictable and insane opponents like Isis and Putin and Assad
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Fri Aug 29, 2014 00:28:25

jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:jerz, you left this tweet from a balls-out lefty off your impressive list of who the fuck anyway:

Joe Scarborough @JoeNBC
Do you really believe the president doesn’t have a strategy yet? Call me crazy but I don’t want the President showing his hand to ISIS.

The question was about whether he was going to go to Congress for authorization before ordering strikes in Syria. Chuck Todd didn't ask him what his plan was. Rather than answer the question....


if there's no specific plan for strikes, there's no specific need to go to Congress for anything yet, specifically, so Todd's specific question is David-Gregory-grade clumsy at best, besides which the greenest politician knows you answer the question you want to answer, not the one you're asked, but you know that already.

And your interpretation of Scarborough is just so perfect, in context. It usually works out that the more you type in one post, the flimsier your shit gets.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Youseff » Fri Aug 29, 2014 00:29:07

The quote to define Obamas BSG's bad part if it's msg board history to one guy.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Aug 29, 2014 04:25:12

pacino wrote:You liked President Vacation.

Definitely the worst of the National Lampoon vacation movies.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Aug 29, 2014 04:57:24

Youseff wrote:most importantly....what the hell was with that tan suit????

Image
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Aug 29, 2014 07:44:14

no you dont go into syria. it's not our country and we weren't asked to go there, unlike Iraq. luckily we were able to stay out of it before (oh no, he went back on the 'red line comment!!!'), there is no reason to tempt fate again. an ineloquent statement in regards to ISIS/ISIL's existence in Syria is not the same as being some bumbling fool. sheesh, get a grip. this bubble in DC amazes me.

why go to Congress to ask for authorization if you're not going to do it? why do people want to go to war in every fucking country in the middle east?? it hasn't worked yet, and has only made things more fractured (Thanks Bush).

then we have hillary clinton, who thinks that some overarching policy where we just fit countries into a box is some actual strategy. fucking christ, i cant believe she is the #1 contender. <-- hey look ma, i disagree with a Democrat (as I do a lot of times, which is forgotten by so many here)
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby TomatoPie » Fri Aug 29, 2014 08:12:41

Why all the flak over the tan suit? It's summer, for chrissakes. I like it. But more importantly, it matters not at all. Why judge a man by the color of his wool?
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Roger Dorn » Fri Aug 29, 2014 08:29:26

To somewhat echo the sentiments of Pacino regarding Hillary, the DNC just issued this response to Rand Paul's quote about Hillary being a war hawk:


“It’s disappointing that Rand Paul, as a Senator and a potential presidential candidate, blames America for all the problems in the world, while offering reckless ideas that would only alienate us from the global community. Unfortunately, this is nothing new for Paul. Last week he criticized American policy to the president of another country on foreign soil. This week he’s blaming the Obama Administration for another nation’s civil war. That type of “blame America” rhetoric may win Paul accolades at a conference of isolationists but it does nothing to improve our standing in the world. In fact, Paul’s proposals would make America less safe and less secure. Simply put, if Rand Paul had a foreign policy slogan, it would be – The Rand Paul Doctrine: Blame America. Retreat from the World.”

Again, this was a statement from the DNC and is one glaring example of why I hate politics. This sounds like an excerpt the Bush Administration prepared to attack Kerry in '04.

http://factivists.democrats.org/dnc-response-to-rand-pauls-troubling-wsj-op-ed/
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Fri Aug 29, 2014 08:36:59

pacino wrote:why go to Congress to ask for authorization if you're not going to do it?

Whoosh!

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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Aug 29, 2014 08:54:59

sigh

yes, i have NO IDEA why Chuck Todd could've possibly asked such a question
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Aug 29, 2014 09:27:31


a guy waiting for his kids to come out of daycare
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Aug 29, 2014 09:28:33

John Kerry: "ISIL must be destroyed/will be crushed."

Chuck Hagel: “ISIL is as sophisticated and well-funded as any group we have seen. They are beyond just a terrorist group. They marry ideology, a sophistication of strategic and tactical military prowess, they are tremendously well funded. This is beyond anything we have seen.”

Martin Dempsey: “This is an organization that has an apocalyptic end-of-days strategic vision that will eventually have to be defeated. Can they be defeated without addressing that part of the organization that resides in Syria? The answer is no.”

So we've got the Secretary of State saying they've got to be destroyed and will be crushed. The Secretary of Defense suggesting the group is beyond anything we've seen. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying the group needs to be defeated, and we need to deal with them in Syria to do so. Why are all these nobodies trying to push the country into war and make the administration look bad? Why would anyone ask Obama about Congress authorizing strikes within Syria?

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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Aug 29, 2014 09:35:27

the question is why ARE they saying this stuff? it's tough talk to the public and to ISIS, pretty simple. perhaps they are also war hawks, like yourself.


if we enter Syria, we're stupid.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby Roger Dorn » Fri Aug 29, 2014 09:43:51

I don't know how you are supposed to solve an ideology with our military? These kids grow up in an area of the world with extremely limited opportunities, extremely high rates of poverty, and despotic regimes hellbent on crushing freedom of expression or any kind for that matter. Militant organizations like ISIS recruit these kids from a young age and they have no shot. Simply put, the military is not any kind of solution and you kill one member of ISIS and 5 more members are recruited.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby drsmooth » Fri Aug 29, 2014 09:59:33

jerseyhoya wrote:So we've got the Secretary of State saying they've got to be destroyed and will be crushed. The Secretary of Defense suggesting the group is beyond anything we've seen. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying the group needs to be defeated, and we need to deal with them in Syria to do so. Why are all these nobodies trying to push the country into war and make the administration look bad?


Sometimes a leader may want to convey to some other tribe's leader that s/he's sitting on a bubbling pot of whoop ass, and so other tribe leader ought to get back or there's little that leader #1 will be able to do to save leader #2 from taking it in the neck. Variation of good cop/bad cop.

So you see, it's not hard to answer your burning questions with just a pinch of imagination. But who knows, really.

Why would anyone ask Obama about Congress authorizing strikes within Syria?


Dunno why anyone would ask, but a hack like Todd asks in that way in a lame attempt to get the person he's asking to tumble to more specifics than s/he wants to share. He's done it before, not with all that much success, because he's not all that good at what he does, other than the ladder climbing.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby td11 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:01:30

does the president have a golf strategy? lol
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:03:59

yeah to LEAD FROM BEHIND! :ce: :dh:
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Aug 29, 2014 14:36:05

td11 wrote:It's as if he's dealing with completely unpredictable and insane opponents like Isis and Putin and Assad


I'd concede on Isis, but Putin and Assad have acted in pretty rational and predictable ways.
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Re: Midterms, Middle East & Middle America - Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Aug 29, 2014 14:37:14

Roger Dorn wrote:I don't know how you are supposed to solve an ideology with our military? These kids grow up in an area of the world with extremely limited opportunities, extremely high rates of poverty, and despotic regimes hellbent on crushing freedom of expression or any kind for that matter. Militant organizations like ISIS recruit these kids from a young age and they have no shot. Simply put, the military is not any kind of solution and you kill one member of ISIS and 5 more members are recruited.


Some of these kids grew up in Great Britain.
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