Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Tue May 06, 2014 08:32:06

i wonder what people will do when Dearborn, MI reads about this:
The court ruled 5 to 4 that Christian prayers said before meetings of an Upstate New York town council did not violate the constitutional prohibition against government establishment of religion; the justices cited history and tradition.

“Ceremonial prayer is but a recognition that, since this Nation was founded and until the present day, many Americans deem that their own existence must be understood by precepts far beyond the authority of government,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote for the court’s conservative majority.

The ruling reflected a Supreme Court that has become more lenient on how government may accommodate religion in civic life without crossing the line into an endorsement of a particular faith. All nine justices endorsed the concept of legislative prayer, with the four dissenters agreeing that the public forum “need not become a religion-free zone,” in the words of Justice Elena Kagan.

But there was sharp disagreement after that, and the majority ruling could encourage public bodies to give more leeway to religious expression in their ceremonial prayers and less deference to the objections of religious minorities.

Kagan’s dissent was both narrow — the town could have remedied its problems by finding more religiously diverse prayer-givers, she said — and broad. The First Amendment’s promise, she wrote, is that “every citizen, irrespective of her religion, owns an equal share in her government.”

Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor joined her.

The decision split the court along its usual ideological divide and, to a lesser extent, by religion. All members of the majority are Catholic, as is Sotomayor. The other dissenters are Jewish.

The case involved the New York town of Greece, just outside Rochester, where the council regularly opened its meetings with a prayer delivered by someone from the community. The speakers were recruited from local houses of worship, which were overwhelmingly Christian.

In fact, every meeting from 1999 to 2007 opened with a Christian prayer, and even after two of the town’s residents filed a lawsuit, only a handful of non-Christians have delivered the invocation.

A panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit found that “the town’s prayer practice must be viewed as an endorsement of a particular religious viewpoint” because the town had not reached out to a more diverse group of prayer-givers or made clear that the prayers did not represent the town’s beliefs.

Kagan said Greece’s policy violates the norm of religious equality — “the breathtakingly generous constitutional idea that our public institutions belong no less to the Buddhist or Hindu than to the Methodist or Episcopalian.”

She said town hall meetings are different from sessions of legislatures or Congress. They are “occasions for ordinary citizens to engage with and petition their government, often on highly individualized matters.” Such meetings require more sensitivity to the prayers offered before a diverse audience, she said.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Tue May 06, 2014 12:58:48

Republicans in PA are going to try to impeach AG Kathleen Kane for not defending the lawsuit against the marriage equality ban

genius move!
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 06, 2014 14:49:53


jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby dajafi » Tue May 06, 2014 14:52:06

That's pretty damn good.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Tue May 06, 2014 18:01:24

brits do it a bit different

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue May 06, 2014 22:40:58

Good night for The Establishment. The Chamber/NRSC fav wins the GOP primary in NC avoiding a runoff, Boehner crushes his three opponents getting about 70% of the total vote, and a freshman GOP House member from Ohio fends off a FreedomWorks backed challenge.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Wed May 07, 2014 00:23:29

Barry Jive wrote:well he was already a Princeton student before this stuff happened. nobody really gets into Princeton without some level of privilege (not necessarily racially based, but privilege nonetheless). i'm sure he's a smart kid. lots of smart people are total fucking idiots

Not everyone at elite schools are either rich or white. In actuality, schools like Princeton turn down tons of perfect GPA/SAT whites and asians so that they can have a more diverse student body. Schools like Princeton and Harvard, with huge endowments, take pride in some of their outreach programs to identify promising minority candidates. They can afford to be generous with aid, whereas many of the next tier of private schools struggle more to afford these types of aid programs. For example, a student from a family with income of $60k will get full tuition, room, and board paid for at Princeton. Basically, I'm saying that schools like Princeton will have some (many?) students who did not have many advantages before getting into Princeton.


I thought it was interesting essay by this kid, not because I agree that it completely addresses the issue -- he obviously whiffs on the advantages of being white in people's perceptions and attitudes -- but because it raises others. Basically, and this is not entirely his intent, he's highlighting that the characteristics driving success are cultural. The values that he got form his parents and grandparents are a huge asset to him. In that sense, he is privileged, but not in the ways that the insult was meant to convey. His main argument is sort of in parallel to this line of thinking, that anyone can pass these values onto their kids, regardless of their income or race. Unfortunately, he is much too defensive and never really gets into this other layer, but if he's smart, then hopefully he will arrive at some different conclusions over time (and not be hardened into his position due to the shrieking criticisms).

As an aside, I can't imagine ever being part of a serious discussion and saying or hearing someone say "check your privilege," but I can imagine it's quite insulting. Imagine if a white person said to a black person, "you wouldn't understand, since you're black." It's rooted in an accusation that someone is not able/willing to understand the others' position fully.

When I was in college, the reason that we stayed up late discussing how to fix all of the world's problems was not because we thought we had all the answers, but because we knew we didn't. That's part of the awesomeness of being in college living with all kinds of different people; you get exposed to other viewpoints, and you can open up other person's eyes to the experiences that you bring. I don't know, maybe the college experience has changed in 10 years, or I've forgotten some of the insults that are said at 2am debates over beer and chicken tenders. I found myself shaking my head at the whole thing, and I am glad I'm not on twitter.


Here's a handy guide. I probably gain an extra 10 points in "privilege checking" by realizing that the bins for income are non-exhaustive:

Image

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Wed May 07, 2014 00:34:28

pacino wrote:Republicans in PA are going to try to impeach AG Kathleen Kane for not defending the lawsuit against the marriage equality ban

genius move!

Call me crazy, but I think it's a bad idea if the executive branch does not faithfully execute the laws passed by the legislative branch because they do not like the laws. I'm talking more of the Holder impeachment attempts that occur every so often, since I haven't read up on Kane's obligations in this lawsuit.

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby SK790 » Wed May 07, 2014 00:35:43

Werthless wrote:I thought it was interesting essay by this kid, not because I agree that it completely addresses the issue -- he obviously whiffs on the advantages of being white in people's perceptions and attitudes -- but because it raises others. Basically, and this is not entirely his intent, he's highlighting that the characteristics driving success are cultural. The values that he got form his parents and grandparents are a huge asset to him. In that sense, he is privileged, but not in the ways that the insult was meant to convey. His main argument is sort of in parallel to this line of thinking, that anyone can pass these values onto their kids, regardless of their income or race. Unfortunately, he is much too defensive and never really gets into this other layer, but if he's smart, then hopefully he will arrive at some different conclusions over time (and not be hardened into his position due to the shrieking criticisms).

As an aside, I can't imagine ever being part of a serious discussion and saying or hearing someone say "check your privilege," but I can imagine it's quite insulting. Imagine if a white person said to a black person, "you wouldn't understand, since you're black." It's rooted in an accusation that someone is not able/willing to understand the others' position fully.

yes, the only thing holding poor, black people back is that their parents didn't pass on the right characteristics for being successful. i feel sorry for you if you really believe that. why not just come out and say that all of these poor people are lazy fucks instead of dancing around it?

imagine how much more insulting it is for a rich white boy to tell someone from the ghetto that all they need to do is have the right characteristics and values to be successful to succeed.
I like teh waether

SK790
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 33040
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 23:12:01
Location: time is money; money is power; power is pizza; pizza is knowledge

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Wed May 07, 2014 00:43:14

SK790 wrote:
Werthless wrote:I thought it was interesting essay by this kid, not because I agree that it completely addresses the issue -- he obviously whiffs on the advantages of being white in people's perceptions and attitudes -- but because it raises others. Basically, and this is not entirely his intent, he's highlighting that the characteristics driving success are cultural. The values that he got form his parents and grandparents are a huge asset to him. In that sense, he is privileged, but not in the ways that the insult was meant to convey. His main argument is sort of in parallel to this line of thinking, that anyone can pass these values onto their kids, regardless of their income or race. Unfortunately, he is much too defensive and never really gets into this other layer, but if he's smart, then hopefully he will arrive at some different conclusions over time (and not be hardened into his position due to the shrieking criticisms).

As an aside, I can't imagine ever being part of a serious discussion and saying or hearing someone say "check your privilege," but I can imagine it's quite insulting. Imagine if a white person said to a black person, "you wouldn't understand, since you're black." It's rooted in an accusation that someone is not able/willing to understand the others' position fully.

yes, the only thing holding poor, black people back is that their parents didn't pass on the right characteristics for being successful. i feel sorry for you if you really believe that. why not just come out and say that all of these poor people are lazy fucks instead of dancing around it?

imagine how much more insulting it is for a rich white boy to tell someone from the ghetto that all they need to do is have the right characteristics and values to be successful to succeed.

I'm sorry you read it like that. And yes, that's a purposeful non-apology.

That's obviously not the only thing holding back poor black children from achieving economic parity, and you'd have to be braind-dead (no offense to brain-dead people) to think that's what I meant by my comments. Other things preventing a poor black 5 year old from attaining later financial success is that their school is likely shitty, they probably already have heard about 60% fewer words than their rich counterparts, crime in their area is probably higher, and they are likely lacking a large number of successful role models to model after. To spin your phrase, imagine how insulting it is for a rich white boy to tell some single mom from the ghetto that there is nothing they can do to prevent their kid from having a poor future.

I really don't know why I post here, when an honest attempt at engagement is routinely met with utter contempt by a cretin of a poster. SK, you add absolutely zero to the politics thread. You could at least post a link to an interesting argument once in a while to keep us on our toes.

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby SK790 » Wed May 07, 2014 02:20:01

i'm using the words you typed, sorry if you don't like my inferences. maybe instead of posting ad hominem attacks on my intelligence you could can explain what you meant because it sure as hell came off like that to me, but what the hell do i know, i'm braind-dead(sic).

i agree with most of what you wrote here that was a blatant shot at me. your last post really lacked the nuance that this one did. it's a tired right narrative that poor black people should just work harder and they'd be successful, and you were alluding to that in your post. it's just ignoring so many factors they need to overcome and the fact that random ass bad luck will often send them back into where they came from. imo, the biggest advantage affluent kids have is the ability to make dumb little mistakes when they're young. there's pretty much no room for fuck ups if you're poor because you fuck up once and you're likely paying for it for a long time(sometimes quite literally).

i left out the parts that i agreed with, fwiw. your first point was a good one. top tier private schools do actually make an effort to help out kids from poor families and i think that's awesome. i'm glad you pointed it out.

you're clearly a smart person, werthless and i enjoy your counterpoints in here for the most part. i'm not going to bash you or completely discredit your opinion because i disagree with you politically.
I like teh waether

SK790
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 33040
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 23:12:01
Location: time is money; money is power; power is pizza; pizza is knowledge

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Wed May 07, 2014 06:46:11

jerseyhoya wrote:Good night for The Establishment. The Chamber/NRSC fav wins the GOP primary in NC avoiding a runoff, Boehner crushes his three opponents getting about 70% of the total vote, and a freshman GOP House member from Ohio fends off a FreedomWorks backed challenge.

"You know, their failures, both Obama's and Kay Hagan's, are obvious," Tillis added.
"We know a lot of them -- our government is borrowing too much money and it's dangerously in debt to China. Obamacare is not working. And Obama and Hagan's left-wing political agenda is driving up our energy prices and making our country less safe.

this guy sounds like a gem
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby td11 » Wed May 07, 2014 08:30:48

Werthless wrote:
I really don't know why I post here, when an honest attempt at engagement is routinely met with utter contempt by a cretin of a poster. SK, you add absolutely zero to the politics thread. You could at least post a link to an interesting argument once in a while to keep us on our toes.

i'd argue that this part in your post is more contemptuous than anything SK posted, but hey. it's bizarre to me that you felt the need to earnestly defend that horrible essay. the kid's twitter account was revealed to have even more hateful stuff, but maybe you didn't catch that stuff. none of the things you say about princeton letting in disadvantaged kids apply to this kid, it was a horrible essay written by a dipshit freshman with no perspective

SK you definitely add more than zero to the politics thread so don't stop posting in it
td11
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 35802
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 03:04:40

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby td11 » Wed May 07, 2014 08:33:40

guys, guys... i know it reads terribly, but the guy makes some valid poiImage
td11
Plays the Game the Right Way
Plays the Game the Right Way
 
Posts: 35802
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 03:04:40

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Wed May 07, 2014 11:21:55

Moody'sdowngrades Kansas' credit rating:
Citing a sluggish recovery from the recession, risk inherent in the governor’s tax plan and uncertainty over the Legislature’s ability to keep cutting spending, one of the nation’s two major debt rating agencies downgraded Kansas’ credit rating Thursday.
Moody’s Investors Service dropped Kansas from its second-highest bond rating, Aa1, to its third highest, Aa2. The Kansas Department of Transportation also took the same downgrade.
The lowered rating could mean that Kansas and KDOT will have to pay higher interest rates to borrow money for public spending.
“The downgrade reflects Kansas’ relatively sluggish recovery compared with its peers, the use of non-recurring measures to balance the budget, revenue reductions resulting from tax cuts which have not been fully offset by recurring spending cuts, and an underfunded retirement system for which the state is not making required contributions,” the report said.
In addition, the report criticized Kansas for taking money from the state highway fund to pay for general government expenses.


The downgrade comes on the heels of a dismal report on April tax income that found Kansas had brought in $93 million less than projected for the month. Overall, the state has taken in $480 million less overall than it had by this point in the last fiscal year.


Senate tax and budget leaders said they’re more worried about spending than income.
“I’m not overly concerned” about the downgrade, said Ty Masterson, R-Andover, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee. If the state runs into serious fiscal trouble, “we just do what you have to do to make it work,” he said.
Assessment and Taxation Chairman Les Donovan, R-Wichita, said he agreed that “if we don’t get our spending in line with our income, we’re always going to be in trouble.”
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 07, 2014 13:23:43

pacino wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Good night for The Establishment. The Chamber/NRSC fav wins the GOP primary in NC avoiding a runoff, Boehner crushes his three opponents getting about 70% of the total vote, and a freshman GOP House member from Ohio fends off a FreedomWorks backed challenge.

"You know, their failures, both Obama's and Kay Hagan's, are obvious," Tillis added.
"We know a lot of them -- our government is borrowing too much money and it's dangerously in debt to China. Obamacare is not working. And Obama and Hagan's left-wing political agenda is driving up our energy prices and making our country less safe.

this guy sounds like a gem

He seems unlikely to be the next Daniel Webster, but if he can end this fella's reign as majority leader, I would be quite happy.


jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Wed May 07, 2014 16:13:39

jerseyhoya wrote:He seems unlikely to be the next Daniel Webster, but if he can end this fella's reign as majority leader, I would be quite happy.


Let's pretend for a minute that Kentuckians send slack-assed, owl-faced Mitch McConnell packing - who's next in line for the reactionaries' majority leader?
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 07, 2014 16:20:52

Cornyn

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Wed May 07, 2014 16:27:16

jerseyhoya wrote:Cornyn


any chance he'd be his own man rather than a Ted Cruz hand=puppet? Because if not Ima start looking at my citizenship options
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 07, 2014 16:32:27

If we win the Senate, McConnell will be majority leader. Not gonna pick up 7 seats, and lose one in freaking Kentucky.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

PreviousNext