mozartpc27 wrote:

dajafi wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:If you want to throw in all the Diebold crap from 2004, and that ridiculous Rolling Stone article about how Kerry really won or should have won Ohio or whatever, it persisted throughout Bush's presidency.

Well, I personally don't--to me, the fact that Bush won 2.5 million more votes nationally renders the Ohio argument moot. (Though I thought it interesting that Christopher Hitchens, who supported Bush in '04 and loathed Kerry, found the arguments that Kerry did win Ohio pretty compelling.)

In any event, I don't think "Bush stole Ohio" was ever as constant or widespread a refrain among Democrats, much less electeds, as Birtherism or secret Muslim stuff seems to be among Republicans. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Though a Demycrat, I'm not much for the "Gore won Florida" business either, though obviously that was a lot closer and a lot more contentious. Gore didn't win his own $#@!-ing home state. He deserved to lose.

mozartpc27 wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:Moz, you ever read this board? Many lefties here have nothing but contempt for patriotism.

And dajafi's whole Florida thing is really just guilt because he and his hippie ilk cost Gore the election voting for that no-good puritan.

Make no mistake--the perfect is the enemy of the good, and ideological purity costs elections.

I understand being suspicious of blind patriotism, of course, as one should be suspicious of blind anything, and always understand that there are two sides to every story. America is not always right, etc.

But there is nothing wrong with promoting this sort of understanding very heavily wrapped in the rubric of "This is the greatest country on earth, but that doesn't mean we can't get better" or something similar. If a sports team gets very good, it doesn't just stop adding new players or looking for new prospects: if it did, it wouldn't stay very good for very long. Life is change nad flux. You have to be ready to constantly renew, replace, and you have to be self-critical, always looking for areas to improve upon, if you want to stay the best. That's how the left should couch their criticisms of American domestic and particularly foreign policy.

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

mozart27 wrote:My dad is fond of re-quoting a George Will line that he (and George Will) feel sum up the conservative thought process: a lot has changed in the last 400 years, almost all of it bad. Conservatism in social matters is, above all else, unnatural: it seeks to stem the natural process of the passage of time, and the change that inevitably brings. Liberals need to point out that social conservatives want nothing to change ever, and how that is not just a bad idea - it is an impossible idea. It's like wishing never to get old, or being able to fly.

America has two great dominant strands of political thought [...] conservatism, which, at its very best, draws lines that should not be crossed; and progressivism, which, at its very best, breaks down barrier that are no longer needed or should never have been erected in the first place.

When Gray came to visit, he extended his noncommittal approach beyond policy questions. Who, we asked, did Gray think was the best mayor D.C. has had under Home Rule? They’d all done some good things, he said. Who was the worst? “I’m curious as to why you even ask that question,” he said.

Well, Vince, we’ll tell you. For a dozen years, D.C.’s government has generally, if imperfectly, gotten better at doing its job. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but the biggest one may be the way two successive mayors made it clear to employees that a sword of Damocles hung over them. Fuck up, and you just might get fired. This wasn’t true under Marion Barry, who’s endorsed you, or Sharon Pratt, who first brought you to government. So, yeah, it’d be nice to know just who you admire.

When people evoke Washington’s bad old days, they don’t just mean mayoral drug arrests. For locals, the strongest memories are of smaller ignominies at the hands of a nincompoop government—one that screwed up minor DMV tasks and major social-services responsibilities alike. One Gray supporter lamely told us that bureaucratic competence was now “baked into the cake.” People once said the same about incompetence! Campaigning on his style, Gray hasn’t proved he’ll watchdog against revived ineptitude—especially if watchdogging means acting like… a jerk.

jerseyhoya wrote:Fox News isn't covering the Koran burning on 9/11

Good for you Roger and Rupert, shame on the rest of the media horde for giving this kook airtime

"We do not cover every flag burning that happens in this country. We don't run every hostage tape," Michael Clemente, senior vice president at Fox News, said in a phone interview. "If we tried to cover everyone who wants us to stick a camera in front of them, we'd run out of cameras pretty fast each day. But this is really about just using some judgment."

Clemente summarized that judgment by saying: "He's one guy in the middle of the woods with 50 people in his congregation who's decided to try, I gather, to bring some attention to himself by saying he's going to burn a Quran if he gets the permit. Well, you know what, there are many more important things going on in the world than that. I don't know what they will be this weekend, but I am sure they will be more important than that."

Clemente said there will be no live coverage, no "video" or "still pictures."

pacino wrote:To be fair jh, where was this when it was BLACK PANTHERS!!!!zomg. I.e. Two guys holding a stick where one lived?

jerseyhoya wrote:

pacino wrote:To be fair jh, where was this when it was BLACK PANTHERS!!!!zomg. I.e. Two guys holding a stick where one lived?

To be fair, pacino, this makes no sense.

pacino wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

pacino wrote:To be fair jh, where was this when it was BLACK PANTHERS!!!!zomg. I.e. Two guys holding a stick where one lived?

To be fair, pacino, this makes no sense.

fox news chose, and still chooses, to highlight an entirely fake and overblown story about some 'black panthers' of whom we should all be very scared. Where was journalistic tradition when this came up?

kopphanatic wrote:Plus this exposes these guys. That might be a good thing. It shows how dangerous this crap about the mosque is.

1.Legitimate and semi-legitimate news organizations(Fox) stir up trouble over what should be a non-issue

2. Jackhole pastor decides it would be a good idea to burn the Koran

3. Taliban and or Al Qaeda uses this as an excuse to kill more Americans(soldiers and civilians)

4. Arab world gets even more pissed at the US, chance of finally bringing peace to that region is lost.

In 2009, Dove World posted a sign on its lawn which stated in large red letters "Islam is of the Devil"

Florida church pastor says he's calling off burning of Qurans - Reuters

jerseyhoya wrote:

Florida church pastor says he's calling off burning of Qurans - Reuters

Well at least you got your 15 minutes in Rev