TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:The stuff that MrsVox brings up about local consolidation is really important in the long run if the state is serious about getting its fiscal house in order. Hopefully the state's economy starts growing over this year and by next year the state budget can afford to buy off towns to combine themselves or something.

My friend, the conservative Republican small town mayor and current Congressional candidate says that the savings there aren't as big as you might think. Service consolidation can have a some impact in some circumstances, but in most cases, he says it makes almost no sense to combine entire municipalities. (There are probably a handful of exceptions like Pahaquarry, population 6.)

If I were looking for waste in NJ government budgets, I'd start with the Counties. It seems you've got next to no accountability with how counties spend their money, and there are few counties that aren't dominated by the political machine of one party or the other.

CalvinBall wrote:its true, he is lazy and should go get a job! stop asking for handouts guy who cant control his muscle contractions!

In response to Palin's attack on Rep Grayson, Grayson actually complimented Palin. Grayson praised Palin for having a hand large enough to fit Grayson's entire name on it. He thanked Palin for alleviating the growing shortage of platitudes in Central Florida.

Grayson added that Palin deserved credit for getting through the entire hour-long program without quitting. Grayson also said that Palin really had mastered Palin's imitation of Tina Fey imitating Palin. Grayson observed that Palin is the most-intelligent leader that the Republican Party has produced since George W. Bush.

When asked to comment about what effect Palin's criticism might have, Grayson pointed out, "As the Knave's horse says in Alice in Wonderland, 'dogs will believe anything.'" Earlier, as the Orlando Sentinel reported, Grayson said, "I'm sure Palin knows all about politics in Central Florida, since from her porch she can see Winter Park," which is part of Grayson's district.

Grayson said that the Alaskan chillbilly was welcome to return to Central Florida anytime, as long as she brings lots of money with her, and spends it. "I look forward to an honest debate with Governor Palin on the issues, in the unlikely event that she ever learns anything about them," Grayson added, alluding to Politifact's "liar, liar, pants on fire" evaluation of much of what Palin has said.

jerseyhoya wrote:It would raise copays from $7 to $15 on brand name drugs and cut them from $6 to $5 on generics. From Social Security to Medicare to Medicare Part D all old people do is suck money from younger folks even though they're one of the wealthiest segments of the population because old people vote so damn much. It's lovely to see someone asking them to pay a little more for a change.

As for permanently raising the top tax rate to 10.25% or 10.75%, you can't just tax and tax and tax rich people, especially when there's a state across the river that has a flat income tax of 3.07%. If you worked in Center City and were making real money at a law firm or playing for the Phillies or whatnot, why in the hell would you live in New Jersey? If you make $1 mil a year, you'd be paying like $50k more per year in income taxes to live in New Jersey than PA. The top marginal rates are less in New York, CT, and Delaware as well, although they have progressive taxation unlike PA. It's easier for taxpayers to flee a state than to flee a country.

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:It would raise copays from $7 to $15 on brand name drugs and cut them from $6 to $5 on generics. From Social Security to Medicare to Medicare Part D all old people do is suck money from younger folks even though they're one of the wealthiest segments of the population because old people vote so damn much. It's lovely to see someone asking them to pay a little more for a change.

As for permanently raising the top tax rate to 10.25% or 10.75%, you can't just tax and tax and tax rich people, especially when there's a state across the river that has a flat income tax of 3.07%. If you worked in Center City and were making real money at a law firm or playing for the Phillies or whatnot, why in the hell would you live in New Jersey? If you make $1 mil a year, you'd be paying like $50k more per year in income taxes to live in New Jersey than PA. The top marginal rates are less in New York, CT, and Delaware as well, although they have progressive taxation unlike PA. It's easier for taxpayers to flee a state than to flee a country.

Well I had been assuming that if you work in another state than the one you live in you pay the income tax in the state you work in, which is apparently wrong.

But why haven't rich people been moving out of before? I don't buy it. The cost of living in the suburbs is relatively low, its an awesome location on about a hundred different levels, there are tons of "rich" communities that are scattered all over and I have hard time believing droves of them would uproot their lives to save money.

I think you'd definitely lose some, but my guess based on no information at all is that there'd still be enough left to bring in more money than before.

traderdave wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:The stuff that MrsVox brings up about local consolidation is really important in the long run if the state is serious about getting its fiscal house in order. Hopefully the state's economy starts growing over this year and by next year the state budget can afford to buy off towns to combine themselves or something.

My friend, the conservative Republican small town mayor and current Congressional candidate says that the savings there aren't as big as you might think. Service consolidation can have a some impact in some circumstances, but in most cases, he says it makes almost no sense to combine entire municipalities. (There are probably a handful of exceptions like Pahaquarry, population 6.)

If I were looking for waste in NJ government budgets, I'd start with the Counties. It seems you've got next to no accountability with how counties spend their money, and there are few counties that aren't dominated by the political machine of one party or the other.

Amen!

My experience is that your friend is correct. On big ticket items like health care costs the savings do add up but, really, how much money can you expect to save from buying paper clips in bulk?

As an extreme example: my district is a receiving district and we approached one of the two sending districts to investigate consolidation. Obviously, there are substantial cost-savings available under such a move and the quality of education may actual improve as the non-local students would be in our schools from the very beginning (common curriculum and all that).

The MAJOR problem is that my district pays our teachers much better than the sending district and those teachers would immediately get raises to our pay scale under a consolidation. Such an increase would wipe out any potential savings and then some, thus, making it a bad business decision. Instead, we are likely to share our superintendent with them and receive monetary compensation.

MrsVox wrote:

traderdave wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:The stuff that MrsVox brings up about local consolidation is really important in the long run if the state is serious about getting its fiscal house in order. Hopefully the state's economy starts growing over this year and by next year the state budget can afford to buy off towns to combine themselves or something.

My friend, the conservative Republican small town mayor and current Congressional candidate says that the savings there aren't as big as you might think. Service consolidation can have a some impact in some circumstances, but in most cases, he says it makes almost no sense to combine entire municipalities. (There are probably a handful of exceptions like Pahaquarry, population 6.)

If I were looking for waste in NJ government budgets, I'd start with the Counties. It seems you've got next to no accountability with how counties spend their money, and there are few counties that aren't dominated by the political machine of one party or the other.

Amen!

My experience is that your friend is correct. On big ticket items like health care costs the savings do add up but, really, how much money can you expect to save from buying paper clips in bulk?

As an extreme example: my district is a receiving district and we approached one of the two sending districts to investigate consolidation. Obviously, there are substantial cost-savings available under such a move and the quality of education may actual improve as the non-local students would be in our schools from the very beginning (common curriculum and all that).

The MAJOR problem is that my district pays our teachers much better than the sending district and those teachers would immediately get raises to our pay scale under a consolidation. Such an increase would wipe out any potential savings and then some, thus, making it a bad business decision. Instead, we are likely to share our superintendent with them and receive monetary compensation.

It wasn't about combining towns, but combining municipal services. So, instead of having a sewer authority, with each one having a guy who runs the whole thing, his secretary, etc., you create the "southern jersey" sewer authority, cut out a bunch of the management positions, regionalize the workers so that you have a larger pool available when their are absences, consolidate billing and the administrative staff, etc. I would think it would also help spread out the costs of improvements -- our township recently expanded its water department so that they could evenly distribute the costs of building new water towers among the residents, who will all benefit. This was pretty much a paper change, although they had to come and "claim" our meter.

Don't discount the health insurance savings. Figure even the smallest school district has about 25 employees, including teachers, administration, maintenance and cafeteria workers. There are 591 school districts in NJ. Health insurance averages about 15000 - 25000 a year for a family plan. Knocking off just $2000 a person for a small school district is $50,000.

As anyone who's done any kind of budgeting for home or work, it's the multiple savings of small amounts that can sometimes make or break you.

jerseyhoya wrote:It would raise copays from $7 to $15 on brand name drugs and cut them from $6 to $5 on generics, plus a couple hundred dollars in a deductible, which I'm not sure if it's new or not. But welcome to reality, if it is. From Social Security to Medicare to Medicare Part D all old people do is suck money from younger folks even though they're one of the wealthiest segments of the population because old people vote so damn much. It's lovely to see someone asking them to pay a little more for a change.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:It would raise copays from $7 to $15 on brand name drugs and cut them from $6 to $5 on generics, plus a couple hundred dollars in a deductible, which I'm not sure if it's new or not. But welcome to reality, if it is. From Social Security to Medicare to Medicare Part D all old people do is suck money from younger folks even though they're one of the wealthiest segments of the population because old people vote so damn much. It's lovely to see someone asking them to pay a little more for a change.

My mother gets $900/mo. Thank gawd she doesn't live in Jersey or she'll have to cut down on the trips to Saint-Tropez.

jerseyhoya wrote:From Social Security to Medicare to Medicare Part D all old people do is suck money from younger folks even though they're one of the wealthiest segments of the population because old people vote so damn much. It's lovely to see someone asking them to pay a little more for a change.

"The art of taking money from the few and votes from the many under the pretext of protecting the one from the other."

-- Sen. Matthew Quay (R-PA), quoted in Realigning America: Mckinley, Bryan, and the Remarkable Election of 1896 by R. Hal Williams.