Where the heck is the New POLITICS Thread?

Postby dajafi » Fri Mar 05, 2010 14:46:58

TenuredVulture wrote:
drsmooth wrote:David Brooks in with his own variation of the "Tea Partiers are basically a hippies/New Left riff" riff

Brooks is big on cultural/political institutions. He seems incapable of imagining an Edward Abbey sort of radicalism, or conservatism (not that Abbey had a particularly lucid worldview, but where motives were concerned, he seemed disinclined to give individuals much more benefit of the doubt than he did institutions - possibly because he himself was so effed up).

In Brooks' eyes, conservatives by definition believe in in the fundamental good of institutions. So, he concludes a) the TPs and the hippies share a radical, and fundamental, anticonservatism and b) both "movements" are doomed to fail, implicitly because they are 'innocent' of the right, & might, of institutional forms.



Just to be clear, I don't agree with Brooks' conception of conservatives as necessarily being reflexive apologists for institutions.


I hate that I find my self in agreement with Brooks on these kinds of things so often. Maybe he's right. Probably somewhere there's a Brooks article where Neo-cons=Trotskyites.

And again, as I noted above, the new left and the tea partiers do share an enormous sense of entitlement, demand instant gratification, seem to reject any argument that is coherent, and neither seem especially attentive to personal hygiene.

By the way, the opposition of Rousseau to all that is decent and civilized is a true fact. Rousseau, and those inspired by him, are a true force of destruction and perhaps evil in the world. Hostility to Rousseau is far more pronounced on the traditional right than the left.


I readily acknowledge the stylistic/organizational/attitudinal similarities between Dirty Hippie Left and Teabagger Right, but the equivalencies can be taken too far. The origin story of the New Left, from Port Huron through the civil rights movement, was essentially affirmational: they called upon the country to live its professed values and think of itself as a community.

Certainly that idealistic spirit waned by the end of the '60s and some truly dark perversions of the original concept emerged--the Manson Family, the Weather Underground, the uglier actions of the Black Panthers. Less dramatic but (I'd argue) also harmful, as well as kind of ironic since the initial goal was full inclusion in a more pluralistic society, was the identity-politics trend on the left that manifested in strength through the '70s and '80s. Do those negatives outweigh the goods that the New Left helped bring--enormous gains in equity, environmental consciousness, even perhaps a partial move away from the ethnocentrism that characterized our foreign policy? I would say no, but of course YMMV.

This is all in pretty stark contrast to the Teabaggers, whose guiding ethos seems to be "fuck you, Jack: I got mine--and rightly so, since I deserve it and you don't." I don't want to reargue the extent to which race or class resentment plays into this, or how much of it is truly grass-roots and how much is stage-managed or at least backed by a chunk of the same Establishment Brooks thinks these folks are railing against, but I do think those are factors.

The self-righteousness of the Raging Right certainly mirrors that of the New Left, but I'd argue they skipped over the virtuous beginning and proceeded right toward the debased middle. We'll see if they reach the gruesome, tragic end of Manson and the bomb-throwers.

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Postby phdave » Fri Mar 05, 2010 16:20:09

TenuredVulture wrote:I bet 50% or so of tea partiers were born between 1964 and 1945, the dirty hippie generation.


One thing's for sure...they're not Jewish. (However, this is with a +/-9 percentage point margin of error. I guess Tea Party Activists could be -9% Jewish.)

Men 60%
Women 40%

White 80%
African-American 2%
Latino 10%

High school degree or less 26%
Some college 34%
College graduate 40%

Less than $30,000 8%
$30-50,000 18%
$50-75,000 32%
$75,000 or more 34%

Urban 9%
Suburban 41%
Rural 50%

Liberal 3%
Moderate 20%
Conservative 77%

Describe self as Democrat 4%
Describe self as Independent 52%
Describe self as Republican 44%

Vote for Democratic candidate for U.S. House 5%
Vote for Republican candidate for U.S. House 87%

18-29 years old 20%
30-49 years old 40%
50-64 years old 29%
65 and older 12%

Northeast 13%
Midwest 29%
South 31%
West 28%

Protestant/Other Christian 68%
Catholic 16%
Jewish *
Other 6%
None 9%
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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Mar 05, 2010 16:24:47

Why even ask a sample of 75-100 people anything? So like 10 of them are from the Northeast.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Mar 05, 2010 16:45:06

Eric Massa is resigning

So 216 is the number Pelosi needs to get to for Health Care

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Postby dajafi » Fri Mar 05, 2010 17:00:20

Koch against the machine

Given that the guy initially came to prominence way, way back in the day as a reform champion, then saw his mayoralty undermined and his reputation wiped out from all the corruption on his watch (even as nobody suggested Ed himself was a crook), this has the potential to become a nice redemption story.

That said, I doubt it works--the criteria for identifying "the worst ones" are too nebulous, and it will be very, very easy for many of the targeted incumbents on the Dem side at least to pull a Clay Davis and ascribe the goo-goo opposition to racism rather than than their spectacular track records of corruption.

A better approach might be to try and force a Grover Norquist type "reform pledge" upon all candidates, incumbents and challengers alike, and then get big money pledged to absolutely savage those who win and then don't follow through.

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Postby dajafi » Fri Mar 05, 2010 17:34:00

Ezra Klein interviews Michael Bennet

I know jh is a fan, more or less, so figured this would be appreciated. Haven't yet read it myself but will.

Edit: I might have a new favorite Senator

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Postby drsmooth » Fri Mar 05, 2010 20:04:28

Swiggers wrote:Neither Burke nor Brooks would use the phrase "reflexive apologists," but the need to revere and preserve institutions is the driving force, because in their view, otherwise society falls apart.



Brooks might not employ my phrase, or even abide by it most days, but he seems annoyingly prone to lapsing into that mode.

Burke certainly was big on authority, but very much down on tyranny, whether of revolutionaries OR of monarchs. Property, then, may be just the institution on which to build a sound society, to be defended stoutly, but obeisance to unfit stewards would not be part of Burke's bargain.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Mar 05, 2010 23:04:08

dajafi wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:
drsmooth wrote:David Brooks in with his own variation of the "Tea Partiers are basically a hippies/New Left riff" riff

Brooks is big on cultural/political institutions. He seems incapable of imagining an Edward Abbey sort of radicalism, or conservatism (not that Abbey had a particularly lucid worldview, but where motives were concerned, he seemed disinclined to give individuals much more benefit of the doubt than he did institutions - possibly because he himself was so effed up).

In Brooks' eyes, conservatives by definition believe in in the fundamental good of institutions. So, he concludes a) the TPs and the hippies share a radical, and fundamental, anticonservatism and b) both "movements" are doomed to fail, implicitly because they are 'innocent' of the right, & might, of institutional forms.



Just to be clear, I don't agree with Brooks' conception of conservatives as necessarily being reflexive apologists for institutions.


I hate that I find my self in agreement with Brooks on these kinds of things so often. Maybe he's right. Probably somewhere there's a Brooks article where Neo-cons=Trotskyites.

And again, as I noted above, the new left and the tea partiers do share an enormous sense of entitlement, demand instant gratification, seem to reject any argument that is coherent, and neither seem especially attentive to personal hygiene.

By the way, the opposition of Rousseau to all that is decent and civilized is a true fact. Rousseau, and those inspired by him, are a true force of destruction and perhaps evil in the world. Hostility to Rousseau is far more pronounced on the traditional right than the left.


I readily acknowledge the stylistic/organizational/attitudinal similarities between Dirty Hippie Left and Teabagger Right, but the equivalencies can be taken too far. The origin story of the New Left, from Port Huron through the civil rights movement, was essentially affirmational: they called upon the country to live its professed values and think of itself as a community.

Certainly that idealistic spirit waned by the end of the '60s and some truly dark perversions of the original concept emerged--the Manson Family, the Weather Underground, the uglier actions of the Black Panthers. Less dramatic but (I'd argue) also harmful, as well as kind of ironic since the initial goal was full inclusion in a more pluralistic society, was the identity-politics trend on the left that manifested in strength through the '70s and '80s. Do those negatives outweigh the goods that the New Left helped bring--enormous gains in equity, environmental consciousness, even perhaps a partial move away from the ethnocentrism that characterized our foreign policy? I would say no, but of course YMMV.

This is all in pretty stark contrast to the Teabaggers, whose guiding ethos seems to be "$#@! you, Jack: I got mine--and rightly so, since I deserve it and you don't." I don't want to reargue the extent to which race or class resentment plays into this, or how much of it is truly grass-roots and how much is stage-managed or at least backed by a chunk of the same Establishment Brooks thinks these folks are railing against, but I do think those are factors.

The self-righteousness of the Raging Right certainly mirrors that of the New Left, but I'd argue they skipped over the virtuous beginning and proceeded right toward the debased middle. We'll see if they reach the gruesome, tragic end of Manson and the bomb-throwers.


Civil Rights to Port Huron wasn't really new left though. New Left begins with Marcuse and Hippie Rousseauist crap. Authenticity, identity and other such nonsense.

In terms of politics, post civil rights, the left has little to show for itself. They didn't end the war, Nixon did. And let's not fool ourselves, there would never have been an anti-war movement without a draft. As someone who was "political" through much of the eighties, the way the old hippies clung to their own mythology and held their positions of power made it impossible for any real movement forward. It's about them, it's always been about them.

Remember, the so-called radicals hated Johnson, who of course did more than any other individual outside of the civil rights movement itself to get real civil rights legislation passed. And while the great society is now viewed as a failure, that had nothing to do with hippies either. That mode of politics is a destructive force, it has been since the Terror, and it is rearing its ugly head again I fear with the Tea Party. It's a weird nihilistic puritanism, and it's bad, bad stuff.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Sun Mar 07, 2010 17:31:05

Jon Runyan got the backing of the Ocean County GOP. He's going to be the nominee. Blah.

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Postby dajafi » Sun Mar 07, 2010 18:30:55

I was hoping this was Adam Gadahn, whom I wouldn't want to see tortured--we shouldn't torture anybody--but would have no problem seeing put to death as a traitor.

The legal wrangle here will be agonizing but interesting.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Mar 08, 2010 02:29:47

“On New Year’s Eve, I went to a staff party. It was actually a wedding for a staff member of mine; there were over 250 people there. I was with my wife. And in fact we had a great time. She got the stomach flu,” he said.

Massa explained that he then danced first with the bride, who was not identified, and then with a bridesmaid. He said multiple cameras recorded the incident.

“I said goodnight to the bridesmaid,” Massa continued. “I sat down at the table where my whole staff was, all of them by the way bachelors.”

“One of them looked at me and as they would do after, I don’t know, 15 gin and tonics, and goodness only knows how many bottles of champagne, a staff member made an intonation to me that maybe I should be chasing after the bridesmaid and his points were clear and his words were far more colorful than that,” Massa said. “And I grabbed the staff member sitting next to me and said, ‘Well, what I really ought to be doing is fracking you.’ And then [I] tossled the guy’s hair and left, went to my room, because I knew the party was getting to a point where it wasn’t right for me to be there. Now was that inappropriate of me? Absolutely. Am I guilty? Yes.”


Excuse me, what?

Massa also suggested that Democratic leaders are using the ethics committee to get him out of office before the vote on health care because he voted against the House health care bill last fall.

"Mine is now the deciding vote on the health care bill and this administration and this House leadership have said, quote-unquote, they will stop at nothing to pass this health care bill, and now they’ve gotten rid of me and it will pass. You connect the dots."


No seriously wtf? Did you take your meds this morning (not for the cancer, for the CRAZY)?

Massa Details Ethics Case Against Him

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Postby dajafi » Mon Mar 08, 2010 09:55:48

So Massa is Admiral Cain.

She probably wouldn't have been a Yes vote for health care either.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Mar 08, 2010 15:12:28

Massa's going on Glenn Beck's show tomorrow

I mean really

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Mar 08, 2010 15:39:18

"Let me tell you a story about Rahm Emanuel," Massa started. "I was a congressman in my first eight weeks, and I was in the congressional gym, and I went down and I worked out and I went into the showers...I'm sitting there showering, naked as a jaybird and here comes Rahm Emanuel not even with a towel wrapped around his tush, poking his finger in my chest, yelling at me because I wasn't going to vote for the president's budget. Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?”


Never end, crazy Massa story. Never end.

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Postby traderdave » Mon Mar 08, 2010 17:00:41

jerseyhoya wrote:
"Let me tell you a story about Rahm Emanuel," Massa started. "I was a congressman in my first eight weeks, and I was in the congressional gym, and I went down and I worked out and I went into the showers...I'm sitting there showering, naked as a jaybird and here comes Rahm Emanuel not even with a towel wrapped around his tush, poking his finger in my chest, yelling at me because I wasn't going to vote for the president's budget. Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?”


Never end, crazy Massa story. Never end.


Isn't that why they are trying to get rid of him?

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Postby drsmooth » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:22:45

The nub of the problem with David Brooks:

The Emotion of Reform

We all have our emotional hot and cold spots. If you asked me about the New York Mets, you’d see a glow in my eyes.


It's not that he doesn't write well - it's that he's beset by delusions.
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Postby pacino » Tue Mar 09, 2010 18:34:46

“We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,” she said. “And I think now, isn't that ironic?”

Guess who?
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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Mar 09, 2010 19:34:59

pacino wrote:
“We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,” she said. “And I think now, isn't that ironic?”

Guess who?


"That must be where my love of moose came from"

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Postby drsmooth » Tue Mar 09, 2010 23:18:11

Jihad Jane, from....Phila suburbs??!??1!??

NY Times wrote:Pennsylvania Woman Tied to Plot on Cartoonist
WASHINGTON — A Pennsylvania woman who called herself JihadJane was tied Tuesday to an alleged assassination plot against a Swedish cartoonist who depicted the prophet Muhammad atop the body of a dog. In an indictment unsealed Tuesday, federal prosecutors accused Colleen R. LaRose, an American from the suburbs of Philadelphia, of linking up through the Internet with militants overseas and plotting to carry out a murder.

Ms. LaRose, 46, was arrested in Philadelphia in October, but her case was kept under seal. Although the indictment does not identify the target, a law enforcement official said her case was linked to the arrests Tuesday of seven Muslims in Ireland in connection with a scheme to kill the cartoonist, Lars Vilks. A group linked to Al Qaeda had put a $100,000 bounty on his head for the cartoon, which the group perceived as an insult to Islam.
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Postby dajafi » Wed Mar 10, 2010 00:32:05

I'd heard of this Marc Thiessen person before but never read him or heard him speak before seeing him on the Daily Show this evening.

"Fourth rate" is about six levels too high. As someone who disagrees with everything this vile little worm of a man espouses, I think I'm actually glad the pro-torture, anti-habeas position has such an ineffective champion.

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