gr wrote:o'reilly vs frank. one for the ages.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrfPMa3lONU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrfPMa3lONU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

seke2 wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

Laexile wrote:Democrats seem to think that being pro-life or believing in creationism somehow disqualifies a person from seeking office.

Doesn't everyone who doesn't believe in creationism think that?

I do. In fact, I would say believing in creationism would disqualify you from being my doctor, a teacher for my child, or my accountant or lawyer. I might, in a pinch, let you work on my furnace.

Agreed. I don't see how this is unfair at all. I would not want someone I know to be a believer in creationism to be making important decisions for me.

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

In the Couric interview, Palin mangled her talking points so badly that all anybody noticed noticed was the mangling itself; the points themselves receded into the background. Her much-improved performance last night, though, had the paradoxical effect of throwing the weakness of the GOP message in this election cycle into sharper relief. To my mind, one of the more telling moments in the debate came when Palin, unbidden, latched on to a Biden reference to education, and started talking about all the teachers in her family, and how her kids attend public school, and then did her shout-out to her brother's third grade class - all of which would have been an ideal anecdotal way to lead into a more substantive argument about education policy. The fact that Palin didn't really have a substantive point (beyond vague references to paying teachers more and making NCLB more flexible) can be attributed in part to her lack of knowledge on the subject, no doubt, and perhaps to her lack of interest in policy detail - but it also reflects the fact that the McCain campaign hasn't put any energy into developing a clear, consistent, and popular message on education. Now, there's nothing wrong with that in principle: McCain wants to toe the line on the federal role in education, so he's mainly proposed small-bore initiatives and made notional commitments to school choice; fair enough. But when you don't have much to say to the middle class on taxes, either, and when you haven't figured out a way to address the liberal critique of your health care plan, and when you don't want to talk about immigration at all (except out of the side of your mouth, to Hispanic groups), when you have next to nothing to say about crime or poverty or the country's infrastructure or any other domestic issue except drilling and earmarks ... well, it gets real tough out there real quick, no matter how many times you throw around the word "maverick."

mozartpc27 wrote:

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

I think it's disingenuous to claim that "Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity,' when you must know full well that what is usually meant by that term, and certainly the way it is being taken by everyone on this board and the way that Sarah Palin would define it, is that the Creation story in the Bible is literally true - that God created the world in seven days.

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

The Dude wrote:LA, you know very well that creationism involves the deity creating humanity as well, takes the book of genesis literally

Creationism comes in many varieties, from the strictest biblical literalism (according to which the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and flat) to the theistic evolutionism of the Catholic Church (which accepts evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and that evolution can explain much of its history—but not the creation of the human soul). Between those extremes, there are "Young-Earth" and "Old-Earth" creationists, who differ over the age of the planet and the details of how God created life.

Camp Holdout wrote:

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

i believe bill maher has somethign to say about this... and its in a movie called religulous coming out... today, would ya look at that? http://www.religulousmovie.net/

la, you might be being intetionally dense here just to be difficult, but you know you HAVE to say you believe in god and blah blah blah if you want to win in this country. i hope and trust that most of the intelligent people in public office are lying about their extent of religious belief.

Mountainphan wrote:

Camp Holdout wrote:

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

i believe bill maher has somethign to say about this... and its in a movie called religulous coming out... today, would ya look at that? http://www.religulousmovie.net/

la, you might be being intetionally dense here just to be difficult, but you know you HAVE to say you believe in god and blah blah blah if you want to win in this country. i hope and trust that most of the intelligent people in public office are lying about their extent of religious belief.

So just to clarify, you believe Obama is lying about his religious beliefs?

Mountainphan wrote:
This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

Camp Holdout wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:

Camp Holdout wrote:

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

i believe bill maher has somethign to say about this... and its in a movie called religulous coming out... today, would ya look at that? http://www.religulousmovie.net/

la, you might be being intetionally dense here just to be difficult, but you know you HAVE to say you believe in god and blah blah blah if you want to win in this country. i hope and trust that most of the intelligent people in public office are lying about their extent of religious belief.

So just to clarify, you believe Obama is lying about his religious beliefs?

yes.

Woody wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:
This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

dude wait what

Mountainphan wrote:

The Dude wrote:LA, you know very well that creationism involves the deity creating humanity as well, takes the book of genesis literally

Actually you're wrong and LA is basically correct. As Daniel Engler points out in his Slate column, creationism has many interpretations. To paint it as only referring to book of genesis is simply incorrect.

Creationism comes in many varieties, from the strictest biblical literalism (according to which the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and flat) to the theistic evolutionism of the Catholic Church (which accepts evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and that evolution can explain much of its history—but not the creation of the human soul). Between those extremes, there are "Young-Earth" and "Old-Earth" creationists, who differ over the age of the planet and the details of how God created life.

This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

Werthless wrote:

Woody wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:
This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

dude wait what

There is an important difference between the people that believe that the universe is 6,000 years old, and those that believe that a divine being was watching over it all (big bang, evolution, etc).

Mountainphan wrote:

The Dude wrote:LA, you know very well that creationism involves the deity creating humanity as well, takes the book of genesis literally

Actually you're wrong and LA is basically correct. As Daniel Engler points out in his Slate column, creationism has many interpretations. To paint it as only referring to book of genesis is simply incorrect.

Creationism comes in many varieties, from the strictest biblical literalism (according to which the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and flat) to the theistic evolutionism of the Catholic Church (which accepts evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and that evolution can explain much of its history—but not the creation of the human soul). Between those extremes, there are "Young-Earth" and "Old-Earth" creationists, who differ over the age of the planet and the details of how God created life.

This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

Werthless wrote:

Woody wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:
This column is also interesting because it points out the diiference between Intelligent Design and creationism.

dude wait what

There is an important difference between the people that believe that the universe is 6,000 years old, and those that believe that a divine being was watching over it all (big bang, evolution, etc).

Werthless wrote:

Camp Holdout wrote:

Mountainphan wrote:

Camp Holdout wrote:

Laexile wrote:Why? What difference does it make? Most of America believes in creationism. Creationism is the religious belief the universe was created by a deity. Pretty much everyone who steps in a synagogue, church, mosque, or ashram believes that. Barack Obama believes in creationism. So you better not vote for him either.

i believe bill maher has somethign to say about this... and its in a movie called religulous coming out... today, would ya look at that? http://www.religulousmovie.net/

la, you might be being intetionally dense here just to be difficult, but you know you HAVE to say you believe in god and blah blah blah if you want to win in this country. i hope and trust that most of the intelligent people in public office are lying about their extent of religious belief.

So just to clarify, you believe Obama is lying about his religious beliefs?

yes.

Do you believe that makes him more trustworthy than a politician who is presumably not lying?