This campaign isn't about the issues POLITICS THREAD

Postby dajafi » Tue Sep 30, 2008 22:38:13

Since yesterday, I've been thinking a good deal about the seemingly strange fact that the two people among my acquaintances who seemed most upset about the failure of the bailout measure in the House were our own jerseyhoya, a professional Republican (and I don't mean that in any kind of pejorative sense, as I hope will be clear in a minute), and the executive director of the organization I work for, a former professional Democrat (worked on the '96 Clinton campaign).

Seeing as both guys are partisans but not ideologues, I think the reason they reacted as strongly as they did is because it particularly bugs them when "the system" in which they are or were invested, fails to respond. That both j-hoya and the boss of our shop used phrases like "Why can't these people act like friggin' grownups?" seems to strengthen the idea.

Ezra Klein made a similar observation:

Above all, though, this is a failure of politics. Like with global warming, with health care, with the national debt, with immigration. It is further proof that we have a calcified political system incapable of responding to either long-term threats or short-term crises. The electoral and partisan incentives have made actual action too dangerous and rendered obstruction everyone's easy second choice. And in politics, you just about never get your first choice. And so the Republicans killed this bill. Without their cover, the Democrats couldn't save it, because politically, they couldn't take ownership of it.

It's easy enough to imagine a society running atop a stable economy even when it has an unhealthy politics. And it's simple enough to see how an unstable economy can be calmed through concerted action by an effective political structure. But an economy in chaos and a political system in paralysis? What happens then?


That we're evidently paralyzed on both the big issues of long standing (global warming, immigration reform, health care, et al) and in crisis response, suggests to me that the ideas we sometimes mock PtK for--a new Constitutional Convention or other root-and-branch change--might be more worth taking seriously than I at least had thought. I'm not there yet myself, but who knows where it's all heading.

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Postby Woody » Tue Sep 30, 2008 22:39:41

Jesus christ, it would be more palatable if she AT LEAST had the intellectual capability to make some shit up on the spot. I've never seen a politician so incapable of BS'ing. How did she get elected to anything?!

At least if she said, "No, as governor I didn't really have a lot of free time for reading newspapers, my free time was spent with my family, whom I chose not to abort" it would have been something. I mean holy jeez wow.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 30, 2008 22:47:56

dajafi wrote:Since yesterday, I've been thinking a good deal about the seemingly strange fact that the two people among my acquaintances who seemed most upset about the failure of the bailout measure in the House were our own jerseyhoya, a professional Republican (and I don't mean that in any kind of pejorative sense, as I hope will be clear in a minute), and the executive director of the organization I work for, a former professional Democrat (worked on the '96 Clinton campaign).

Seeing as both guys are partisans but not ideologues, I think the reason they reacted as strongly as they did is because it particularly bugs them when "the system" in which they are or were invested, fails to respond. That both j-hoya and the boss of our shop used phrases like "Why can't these people act like friggin' grownups?" seems to strengthen the idea.

Ezra Klein made a similar observation:

Above all, though, this is a failure of politics. Like with global warming, with health care, with the national debt, with immigration. It is further proof that we have a calcified political system incapable of responding to either long-term threats or short-term crises. The electoral and partisan incentives have made actual action too dangerous and rendered obstruction everyone's easy second choice. And in politics, you just about never get your first choice. And so the Republicans killed this bill. Without their cover, the Democrats couldn't save it, because politically, they couldn't take ownership of it.

It's easy enough to imagine a society running atop a stable economy even when it has an unhealthy politics. And it's simple enough to see how an unstable economy can be calmed through concerted action by an effective political structure. But an economy in chaos and a political system in paralysis? What happens then?


That we're evidently paralyzed on both the big issues of long standing (global warming, immigration reform, health care, et al) and in crisis response, suggests to me that the ideas we sometimes mock PtK for--a new Constitutional Convention or other root-and-branch change--might be more worth taking seriously than I at least had thought. I'm not there yet myself, but who knows where it's all heading.


You're using a pragmatist/ideologue distinction. But what if the operating distinction is inside/outside the establishment? That is, people inside the establishment are scare that this is Armageddon, because it is for them. But the rest of America sees things differently. Our economic world doesn't seem to have any connection to this nonsense, and I'm really pissed if you take some of my money to bail these evil (and let's be honest, a lot of these guys are little better than Jeffrey Dahlmer when it comes to morality) fuckers.

It's not so crazy--all the people supporting this thing stand to lose a great deal if it fails. The rest of us, well, you're saying we stand to lose a great deal here, but so far, things don't really seem so dire. Our big problems are high gas prices, and the fact is that this bailout is very likely to raise those. So, the outsider attitude to the insiders--go fuck yourself. We've got better guns anyway.

I was listening to one of these rat bastards on Bloomberg today, and he was basically looking forward to the day when the consequence of a failed bailout started affecting mainstreet.
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Postby Bucky » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:00:13

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Why would you follow anyone into a burning building?


because they got to the door before me, silly.

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Postby Trent Steele » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:02:15

Couric: And when it comes to establishing your world view, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand the world?

Palin: I’ve read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.

Couric: What, specifically?

Palin: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years.

Couric: Can you name a few?

Palin: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news, too. Alaska isn’t a foreign country, where it’s kind of suggested, “wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?” Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.


ZOMG, ZOMG, ZOMG, ZOMG

SHE'S READ "MOST OF" THE NEWSPAPERS AND MAGAZINES IN THE WORLD

This is so awesome that its wanking time
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Postby Trent Steele » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:06:36

Seriously, is Sarah Palin not the most glorious gift ever bestowed upon this country?
I know what you're asking yourself and the answer is yes. I have a nick name for my penis. Its called the Octagon, but I also nick named my testes - my left one is James Westfall and my right one is Doctor Kenneth Noisewater.

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Postby CalvinBall » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:08:33

What makes you say that? Did you just see something else or you can't stop thinking about her?

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Postby Trent Steele » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:09:21

Sarah Palin Engages in Perverse Journalistic Orgy of Excess


When asked what newspapers and magazines she reads, Sarah Palin replied, "all of them." All of them! And so, a meme is born.

All of them! All! All! All! Of! Them! The Modesto Bee, The Hartford Courant, The Louisville Courier-Journal, The Vassar Pioneer Times, Teen People, Tiger Beat, Paris Match, High Times, Destination Qatar -- ALL OF THEM!

All of them. We just can't stop repeating that line to ourselves. All of them! It's as nonsensical a response to the question as it would be to "can I interest you in any appetizers," or "which came first, the chicken or the egg," or "knock knock."


These communists made me chuckle
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Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:13:24

dajafi wrote:Seeing as both guys are partisans but not ideologues, I think the reason they reacted as strongly as they did is because it particularly bugs them when "the system" in which they are or were invested, fails to respond. That both j-hoya and the boss of our shop used phrases like "Why can't these people act like friggin' grownups?" seems to strengthen the idea.


good call. very good call.

That we're evidently paralyzed on both the big issues of long standing (global warming, immigration reform, health care, et al) and in crisis response, suggests to me that the ideas we sometimes mock PtK for--a new Constitutional Convention or other root-and-branch change--might be more worth taking seriously than I at least had thought. I'm not there yet myself, but who knows where it's all heading.


I'm not a skier, but I remember some ski whiz commenting on Wide World of Sports years ago that the best thing for a skier to do when s/he felt s/he was going too fast was...to speed up.

I think that may be useful & somewhat counterintuitive advice for anyone contemplating 'necessary' change to extant social institutions.

I'm sort of a one-noter on Clay Shirky around here, but he seems to come out with a surprising volume of thoughtful, non-evaluative observations on the confluence of social change and telecom innovation. For me it's useful grist for imagining the future - a future that may require notably less apparatus for conducting social decisionmaking rituals - if not for making policy or fomenting revolution.
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Postby Trent Steele » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:15:14

CalvinBall wrote:What makes you say that? Did you just see something else or you can't stop thinking about her?


Stop thinking about her? How is that even possible? She consumes me. Although I can't prove it, I'm fairly certain Sarah Palin died for our sins and was resurrected in the form of Sarah Palin.
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Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:15:18

Trent Steele wrote:
"knock knock."


<"yes they are!!"
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Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:34:59

TenuredVulture wrote:You're using a pragmatist/ideologue distinction. But what if the operating distinction is inside/outside the establishment? That is, people inside the establishment are scare that this is Armageddon, because it is for them. But the rest of America sees things differently. Our economic world doesn't seem to have any connection to this nonsense, and I'm really pissed if you take some of my money to bail these evil (and let's be honest, a lot of these guys are little better than Jeffrey Dahlmer when it comes to morality) $#@!.


McCain or Obama are probably both capable of driving a car from here to there - but neither pisses gas.

Paulson Jr is good at refining economic fuel (money, equity, assets), but I don't want my local pump attendant deciding the route for my next trip.

And now the dumbass wants to pump a few gallons directly into the back seat, where those damn kids pelosi & boehner are playing with matches.

This analogy makes little if any sense but I enjoyed typing it
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Postby gr » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:43:30

Bakestar wrote:
mpmcgraw wrote:Do all people in Alaska talk like that? (and no I don't mean stupid)

That is seriously the worst accent ever. I like the idea of stayin in Alaska for a little bit just for the hell of it at some point in my life, but if the people that live there all talk like that there is no way in hell.


I wonder if they're coaching her to play it up to appeal to the base/tard voters in the party. Like they did with Bush's Texas-via-Yale idiot drawl.


i'm pretty sure there are a number of youtube clips from her tenure as gov before the nomination and that's what she sounds like. they also show that she's better than this at interviews and articulating a view. she's obviously letting the campaign get to her and its kind of sad overall. its yet another distraction from much more important things in the campaign. i'd rather be hearing some serious talk on the economy, education (NCLB) and whatever else, instead of discussion about a katie couric interview. its all very sickening what MSM has become.
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Postby FTN » Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:51:47

gr wrote:
Bakestar wrote:
mpmcgraw wrote:Do all people in Alaska talk like that? (and no I don't mean stupid)

That is seriously the worst accent ever. I like the idea of stayin in Alaska for a little bit just for the hell of it at some point in my life, but if the people that live there all talk like that there is no way in hell.


I wonder if they're coaching her to play it up to appeal to the base/tard voters in the party. Like they did with Bush's Texas-via-Yale idiot drawl.


i'm pretty sure there are a number of youtube clips from her tenure as gov before the nomination and that's what she sounds like. they also show that she's better than this at interviews and articulating a view. she's obviously letting the campaign get to her and its kind of sad overall. its yet another distraction from much more important things in the campaign. i'd rather be hearing some serious talk on the economy, education (NCLB) and whatever else, instead of discussion about a katie couric interview. its all very sickening what MSM has become.


I agree. Focusing on a complete lack of competence from the potential #2 in this country is really sending us in the wrong direction.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:00:14

I suppose we could end up a lot like the eurocrats wish euroland would be--a continent governed by its bureaucracy, with a sort of elected parliament reduced to a talking shop. Of course, the pesky Europeans aren't quite ready to hand over sovereignty to these guys, even if their governments can't wait to rid themselves of the pesky burden of governing.
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Postby lethal » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:00:22

Trent Steele wrote:Seriously, is Sarah Palin not the most glorious gift ever bestowed upon this country?


And people thought Dan Quayle was too unqualified and dumb to be Vice President.

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Postby lethal » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:03:17

Woody wrote:Jesus christ, it would be more palatable if she AT LEAST had the intellectual capability to make some $#@! up on the spot. I've never seen a politician so incapable of BS'ing. How did she get elected to anything?!

At least if she said, "No, as governor I didn't really have a lot of free time for reading newspapers, my free time was spent with my family, whom I chose not to abort" it would have been something. I mean holy jeez wow.


Or on the foreign policy experience thing, "Alaska is close to Russia and we have to work together on issues like fishing rights and earthquake warnings."

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Postby gr » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:24:15

FTN wrote:
gr wrote:
Bakestar wrote:
mpmcgraw wrote:Do all people in Alaska talk like that? (and no I don't mean stupid)

That is seriously the worst accent ever. I like the idea of stayin in Alaska for a little bit just for the hell of it at some point in my life, but if the people that live there all talk like that there is no way in hell.


I wonder if they're coaching her to play it up to appeal to the base/tard voters in the party. Like they did with Bush's Texas-via-Yale idiot drawl.


i'm pretty sure there are a number of youtube clips from her tenure as gov before the nomination and that's what she sounds like. they also show that she's better than this at interviews and articulating a view. she's obviously letting the campaign get to her and its kind of sad overall. its yet another distraction from much more important things in the campaign. i'd rather be hearing some serious talk on the economy, education (NCLB) and whatever else, instead of discussion about a katie couric interview. its all very sickening what MSM has become.


I agree. Focusing on a complete lack of competence from the potential #2 in this country is really sending us in the wrong direction.


it would be nice to think that's what's happening, right? but it's not really. she gave a terrible answer, but to an essential question such as "what publications do you read?" as if a governor and a mother of 5 sits around during the day, paging through Newsweek with her feet up on the desk. does anyone outside of the media seriously care what media she reads? stop wasting everyone's time with this crap.

on competency, she ran a successful statewide campaign and currently has a 80% job approval rating in her state. so she's been asked every sort of question about her background aside from those facts. instead we get some bogus internet rumor about bannign books 12 years ago. makes sense to me. wake me up when we look into Obama's ACORN-Ayers-Reznik involvement or Biden's plagerism and senate votes. or mccain's rather inflated "maverick" record for that matter.

this kind of stuff is unimportant. that's the nicest thing i can think to say about it all.
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Postby Houshphandzadeh » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:26:07

It was one question out of many.

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Postby meatball » Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:47:41

Houshphandzadeh wrote:It was one question out of many.


Exactly.

Prove to me that she wasn't a blatant, knee jerk pick to pander to women and/or easily swayed tards and I might have some sympathy. A good leader surrounds himself with people who make him better and, well, help him lead. She adds nothing. It was a desperate move and showed an 8th-inning-tie game in 7th game of World Series-bringing in Geoff Geary or Doug Nickle-type lack of judgment that...forgive me...makes me question the man's ability to lead the free world. Surely I'M a crazy concerned voter misreading the situation, no?

It's a joke, plain and simple, and I'm insulted. Shit, I wouldn't have liked a Romney pick, but at least it'd be understandable. This is just an insult to intelligence, plain and simple. It's 'tard board shit.

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