This campaign isn't about the issues POLITICS THREAD

Postby gr » Mon Sep 29, 2008 00:35:59

mets hating unifies parties and is good for america.
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Postby Woody » Mon Sep 29, 2008 09:52:37

So the markets are off to a flying start today. Dow down 241, S&P down 34
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Sep 29, 2008 09:55:31

Check again Woody, down 320 as I type this.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 09:56:26

I can haz bailout package? :?

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Postby Woody » Mon Sep 29, 2008 09:56:34

YES!!!!
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:20:45

http://thehill.com/index2.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=76644&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=70

Both sides are whipping the vote in the house to pass the bailout. Problems are coming up from the left, the right, from the Congressional Black Caucus, from a pouting Spence Baucus, etc.

I can't imagine a vote where both leaderships agree could fail, but this is damn interesting.

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Postby Wizlah » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:24:19

Interesting. First saw this column in the guardian putting forward some reasons why the bailout plan wouldn't work, and it includes a link to an IMF working paper comparing different bailouts of banks around the world in terms of fiscal cost. Useful if only because there's been precious little discussion of alternatives on this side of the water.
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Postby dajafi » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:28:35

Continuing a discussion from last week, a piece from Friday about the bailout battle:

[T]he House Republicans have no great love for John McCain, nor he for them. And as became clear, trying to accommodate the odd demands of House Republicans, which are not amendments to the Paulson plan but an entirely different scheme, would be far harder than mediating between Paulson and Frank's modifications to Paulson's plan. It makes more sense to take House Republicans at their word: Their rebellion is their own. And it was probably driven by a public backlash that they would inevitably hear first. The House Republicans now represent white Americans of modest means -- the very opposite of the "investor class." (Most of the Republicans who represented affluent districts were wiped out in 2006.) They are the ones whose phones are ringing off the hook with opposition to the bailout, the ones already saddled with an unpopular president, an unpopular war, and an uninspiring presidential nominee.

Republican strategist Ed Rollins gave the game away on CNN: "At the end of the day, there's a lot of people thinking about how to rebuild this party, and do we want to rebuild it with John McCain, who's always kind of questionable on the basic facts of fiscal control, all the rest of it, immigration. And I think to a certain extent this 110, 115 members of this study group are saying, here's the time to draw the line in the sand."

Thus the most significant event of the day may not have taken place in D.C. but out in those Republican districts like Boehner's. The Republican coalition since at least Reagan has been a miraculous alliance of Wall Street and Main Street. Populist politics, such as the attack on "elites" now embodied by the enthusiasm for Gov. Sarah Palin, were the vehicle for Wall Street policies, the very policies that led to the crash. The alliance always seemed unsustainable. At some point it had to break -- you can't go on forever with policies that do nothing for your core constituencies. And now, in the backlash against the bailout, it has broken. The House Republicans see in that backlash an opportunity to, as Rollins says, "rebuild this party" on populist, anti-Wall Street grounds.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:16:35

Despite the credit the left likes to give Rove as being some kind of evil genius, the truth is now apparent--Rove is neither evil or a genius. He saw the writing on the wall, and realized that the Reagan main street/wall street coalition could not hang together indefinitely, and sought to strengthen it by expanding the main street base to include Latinos and what we might call security moms.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:16:41

I could not be happier that I'm going to be hammered by the end of the Phils game on Thursday and thus too drunk to care when Biden bitch slaps Palin around during the VP debate.

Also, on the prospects for passage of the bailout bill...

Politico’s Crypt Blog: Whipping The Votes On Both Sides Of The Bailout

By Martin Kady II

Predicting votes on something this volatile, when party lines and ideologies are blurred, is an inexact science, to say the least.

One Republican House leadership aide, along with a Republican lawmaker involved in the talks, both tell Politico that Democrats will need to deliver 150 yes votes on the bailout, and Republicans will need 70 on their side for the bailout to pass. That math gets the House to 220, just enough to pass.

At this point, nobody is predicting a slam dunk in the House on passage, but we'll find out in about an hour. This is one of those votes even that will be watched closely by even the most experience hands in Congress.

The Senate, which will likely vote on Wednesday, is not looking like an obstacle. Even the most conservative senators are either staying quiet or not actively opposing the bailout bill.

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Postby drsmooth » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:28:00

dajafi wrote:Continuing a discussion from last week, a piece from Friday about the bailout battle:

...The House Republicans now represent white Americans of modest means -- the very opposite of the "investor class." (Most of the Republicans who represented affluent districts were wiped out in 2006.) They are the ones whose phones are ringing off the hook with opposition to the bailout, the ones already saddled with an unpopular president, an unpopular war, and an uninspiring presidential nominee.

....Populist politics, such as the attack on "elites" now embodied by the enthusiasm for Gov. Sarah Palin, were the vehicle for Wall Street policies, the very policies that led to the crash. The alliance always seemed unsustainable. At some point it had to break -- you can't go on forever with policies that do nothing for your core constituencies. And now, in the backlash against the bailout, it has broken....


My dear old ma a longtime republican & someone who has tolerated "those bastards" (her catch-all for Wall Street suspender-snappers) for many years, would vouch for this explanation - but I'd caution against imagining there is any great level of understanding among her set regarding exactly why those bastards have earned their mistrust.
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Postby Trent Steele » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:53:33

jerseyhoya wrote:I could not be happier that I'm going to be hammered by the end of the Phils game on Thursday and thus too drunk to care when Biden bitch slaps Palin around during the VP debate.


I'm praying for more of these:


Couric: "What happens if the goal of democracy doesn't produce the desired outcome? In Gaza, the U.S. pushed hard for elections and Hamas won."

Palin: "Yeah, well especially in that region, though, we have to protect those who do seek democracy and support those who seek protections for the people who live there. What we're seeing in the last couple of days here in New York is a President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, who would come on our soil and express such disdain for one of our closest allies and friends, Israel ... and we're hearing the evil that he speaks and if hearing him doesn't allow Americans to commit more solidly to protecting the friends and allies that we need, especially there in the Mideast, then nothing will."
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Postby phdave » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:36:29

TenuredVulture wrote:Despite the credit the left likes to give Rove as being some kind of evil genius, the truth is now apparent--Rove is neither evil or a genius. He saw the writing on the wall, and realized that the Reagan main street/wall street coalition could not hang together indefinitely, and sought to strengthen it by expanding the main street base to include Latinos and what we might call security moms.


He also sought to strengthen it through political prosecutions and election rigging.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:40:21

I think they're voting now. It's close.

zOMG C-Span drama!

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:42:20

1 minute left. It's currently failing by 8 votes.

Holy poop.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:44:14

Oh my god it's going to fail

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Postby BuddyGroom » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:45:24

I guess we need to bring back Denny Hastert to keep the roll call open for 3 hours.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:45:54

It failed.

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Postby momadance » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:46:58

LOLerZ

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Postby Woody » Mon Sep 29, 2008 13:47:21

Baha, OMG FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDON WE'LLL ALLLLLL DIE

but probably not
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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