livestock, lipstick, and liquidity: politics thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Sep 25, 2008 19:36:06

They aren't canceling the VP debate. Period. It's a non-starter on 500 levels.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:07:44

If Republicans kill this, and the economy worsens, you could see the end of the Republican party as a viable national party for quite some time.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:14:46

a) I can't imagine it won't pass.

b) The Democrats have a 35 seat majority in the House. Uh, they can pass it.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:30:15

jerseyhoya wrote:a) I can't imagine it won't pass.

b) The Democrats have a 35 seat majority in the House. Uh, they can pass it.


Ah, but of course a single Senator could pretty much kill this bill--Shelby certainly could.

I agree, I think a bill will pass, especially if Paulson can persuade everyone in Congress that doing nothing means financial Armageddon. But I just saw Pence on TV, and he started talking about tax cuts. You can't trust ideologues of any stripe. They're the kind of people who think burning a village to save it makes perfect sense.

So, now Pelosi is saying that she'll look at the Republican alternative, but it only has a chance if Bush and Paulson (and presumably Bernake) sign off on it. Anyway, there's a major split in the Republican party, and at least some of them are in no mood to compromise.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:31:59

Meanwhile, Redstate is inaccessible. Why can't you people put together a stable website? It's not like it's getting a ton of traffic these days.
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Postby VoxOrion » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:33:24

Why read Redstate? Read the Corner.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:34:35

VoxOrion wrote:Why read Redstate? Read the Corner.


I like the rank and file wingnuts. The corner is too elitist for me. But if Redstate doesn't get itself fixed soon, I may have to switch.
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Postby meatball » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:36:04

Apologies if this passage was pointed out already. It's GOLD.

Katie Couric: You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that?

Sarah Palin: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and, on our other side, the land-boundry that we have with Canada. It's funny that a comment like that was kinda made to … I don't know, you know … reporters.

Couric: Mocked?

Palin: Mocked, yeah I guess that's the word, mocked.

Couric: Well, explain to me why that enhances your foreign-policy credentials.

Palin: Well, it certainly does, because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there…

Couric: Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?

Palin: We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It's very important when you consider even national-security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to our state.
Last edited by meatball on Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:41:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby VoxOrion » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:36:06

I can read what idiots think here, why not at least read professional idiots.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:41:51

VoxOrion wrote:I can read what idiots think here, why not at least read professional idiots.


Because, even with a PhD and tenure and a taste for 20th century classical music, I'm still a regular guy in the end. A regular guy who likes a good steak, domestic motor vehicles, and wonders what is up with kids today. Basically, I'm hank hill who spent too much time in college.

Oh yeah, I almost never get a latte. I'm a coffee black kind of guy.
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Postby mpmcgraw » Thu Sep 25, 2008 20:53:02

meatball wrote:Apologies if this passage was pointed out already. It's GOLD.

Katie Couric: You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that?

Sarah Palin: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and, on our other side, the land-boundry that we have with Canada. It's funny that a comment like that was kinda made to … I don't know, you know … reporters.

Couric: Mocked?

Palin: Mocked, yeah I guess that's the word, mocked.

Couric: Well, explain to me why that enhances your foreign-policy credentials.

Palin: Well, it certainly does, because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there…

Couric: Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?

Palin: We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It's very important when you consider even national-security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to our state.

So from what I gather, she is either taking credit for the fighters based in Alaska intercepting a couple Russian bombers that get too close every year or is she saying that Alaska spies on Russia.

huh.

okay then.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Sep 25, 2008 23:41:57

So who had their money on Bush acting like a grown up and everyone else pissing and moaning and generally acting like children? Anyone?

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Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Sep 25, 2008 23:49:09

Markets are going to get pounded tomorrow morning.

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Postby threecount » Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:12:49

jerseyhoya wrote:So who had their money on Bush acting like a grown up and everyone else pissing and moaning and generally acting like children? Anyone?


What irks me is that it seems like they were 95% to a deal yesterday, and the leaders even told McCain and Obama to just stay away, then McCain made his grandstand decision and then Bush called them both to come to Washington.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that I think things would have been settled by now if McCain just stayed out of it.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:18:54

The House Republicans still wouldn't have gotten on board, and Nancy still wouldn't have whipped her caucus for a vote because she doesn't want to be caught holding the bag at the end of the day.

Whining about McCain showing up is weak. Even this afternoon when they said they had a deal in place, Boehner immediately came out and said that was news to him.

McCain really does need to get the House GOP to deliver though. He's the only person who has any leverage over them whatsoever, even though many of them hate him. I hope he succeeds. Good politics and good policy, as far as I can see. If he can do it before the debate, all the better.

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Postby FTN » Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:25:40

WASHINGTON — The day began with an agreement that Washington hoped would end the financial crisis that has gripped the nation. It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, urgent warnings from the president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support.

“If money isn’t loosened up, this sucker could go down,” President Bush declared Thursday as he watched the $700 billion bailout package fall apart before his eyes, according to one person in the room.

It was an implosion that spilled out from behind closed doors into public view in a way rarely seen in Washington.

By 10:30 p.m., after another round of talks, Congressional negotiators gave up for the night and said they would try again on Friday. Left uncertain was the fate of the bailout, which the White House says is urgently needed to fix broken financial and credit markets, as well as whether the first presidential debate would go forward as planned Friday night in Mississippi.

When Congressional leaders and Senators John McCain and Barack Obama, the two major party presidential candidates, trooped to the White House on Thursday afternoon, most signs pointed toward a bipartisan agreement on a grand compromise that could be accepted by all sides and signed into law by the weekend. It was intended to pump billions of dollars into the financial system, restoring liquidity and keeping credit flowing to businesses and consumers.

“We’re in a serious economic crisis,” Mr. Bush told reporters as the meeting began shortly before 4 p.m. in the Cabinet Room, adding, “My hope is we can reach an agreement very shortly.”

But once the doors closed, the smooth-talking House Republican leader, John A. Boehner of Ohio, surprised many in the room by declaring that his caucus could not support the plan to allow the government to buy distressed mortgage assets from ailing financial companies.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/busin ... ut.html?em

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Postby FTN » Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:26:18

In the Roosevelt Room after the session, the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, not to “blow it up” by withdrawing her party’s support for the package over what Ms. Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.

“I didn’t know you were Catholic,” Ms. Pelosi said, a wry reference to Mr. Paulson’s kneeling, according to someone who observed the exchange. She went on: “It’s not me blowing this up, it’s the Republicans.”

Mr. Paulson sighed. “I know. I know.”

It was the very outcome the White House had said it intended to avoid, with partisan presidential politics appearing to trample what had been exceedingly delicate Congressional negotiations.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:29:13

The Democrats have 235 votes in the House. You need 218 to pass legislation. There's more bipartisan agreement in the Senate, which is needed to prevent a filibuster.

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Postby dajafi » Fri Sep 26, 2008 01:45:01

jerseyhoya wrote:The Democrats have 235 votes in the House. You need 218 to pass legislation. There's more bipartisan agreement in the Senate, which is needed to prevent a filibuster.


Some of these folks (Pelosi amongst them) have long enough memories to recall what happened when they passed the Clinton budget in 1993, with the tax increase explicitly intended to cut the Reagan deficit, by a vote of 218-217. If that wasn't literally all Democrats in the majority, it was close. The Republicans used that (among other things) to beat the hell out of them in the following election... which was seventeen months off at the time. The next election is less than six weeks away.

That isn't to say what they're doing is "right," but it is rational. From Pelosi's standpoint, why should she put her members (and speakership) at risk to clean up a mess she believes, with some (not full) justification, the Republicans (led by Gramm) created through reckless deregulation?

A truism of the polisci classes that I took, and I'm sure those that you took, is that whenever government does anything controversial, it must be done on a bipartisan basis. This thing isn't controversial; it's widely despised, on both the left and the right. I think either they all put their necks on the line, or the deal fails.

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Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Sep 26, 2008 01:51:49

phdave wrote:FakeSarahPalin explains what happened via twitter:

IT'S OKAY AMERICA!! AFTER PRAYING ON IT, I GAVE UP MAKING SENSE W/ KATIE KOURIC SO I COULD FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY :)


Anyone notice that PhDave showed up around the time Lax dropped out?

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