Palin Power! Politics Thread

by **Philly the Kid** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:16:26

Why do conservatives act like that no matter what happens in DC, the mythology is that it's a "liberal" town/agenda policy? Why do the republican deny they are and have been in power?

Get on the offensive Obama, you are going down....

by **Philly the Kid** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:35:57

Thomas Frank on radio now --

says republicans are doing the usual "cutlure war", doesn't think Obama will win, but is a smart politician and can win he has to fight back and the way to fight the culture war is to expose it as class resentment -- and bring out the real thing -- show the real people that Palin says she's one of, and expose that she's just part of the republican agenda to keep corprorate and conservative elites in power.

new book "The Wrecking Crew, How Conservatives Rule"

furthter to my point about "facts" and info -- he says that "the other side is not represented" it's not that people consciously vote against their class interest -- but they are only getting one side of info ( I call it propoganda), says when people were voting liberal social values, there was a stronger labor movement and people were better informed connecting their social to the political... (my paraphrase)

by **dajafi** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 13:36:01

Philly the Kid wrote:Be careful before you brand me some ivy league NYC leftwing liberal Democrat who thinks he knows what's best for all.

Um.

All due respect.

As an Ivy League-educated, NYC Democrat, I'm pretty much dead certain that you are vastly, vastly more prescriptive and arrogant in your pronouncements about "if only people knew what's good for them than ANYONE, left right or center, on this board.

It's that arrogance, generally backed up by an absence of specifics or supporting arguments, that's made you something of a joke here.

by **mpmcgraw** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 13:42:27

Fun fact: George W. Bush attended Yale and Harvard.

by **dajafi** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 13:52:41

I was thinking last night about the glee of Vox and others at Democrats' agita regarding Palin. And the smug, so-clever exchange about "BDS" and "PDS" reinforces what occurred to me.

The reason I loathe Bush, and why I'm quickly coming to loathe Palin, is that in a meritocratic society, neither of them has any business coming within an area code of political power. This isn't true of John McCain, and that's probably why I don't feel the same way about him even as he's waged a campaign thatKarl Rove himself has called dishonest. He's behaving disgracefully, but through a long and generally distinguished career of public service he's earned his place of prominence in the nation's politics.

Bush at least could fool people, by virtue of his family and his Ivy League degrees... so long as you didn't pay attention in 2000. Palin doesn't even have those slender credentials--but she does seem to have the same arrogance, nasty edge, lack of curiosity and sense of entitlement.

It seems the Republicans only care about winning, and they're certainly good at it--far better than the hapless schmucks I tend to support. But the mastery of politics seems to carry the price of total ineptitude once in power.

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:02:41

I'll disagree on just about all of your analysis in terms of "fooling" people and "just wants to win" - both are, with all due respect, nonsense. There is not a party in this election who is in it to do the "right thing" despite winning or losing. There just isn't. There never is.

The PDS is so childish (particularly here, times 100 on the left side of the internet), it's wonderful. It's a great tool that forces tigers to show their stripes. The only emotion I see in this campaign that approaches hatred is coming from left - wild proclamations to the contrary notwithstanding.

by **Laexile** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:04:09

I'm not excusing the McCain ads. I'm thoroughly opposed. I think he's gone too far and they are saying a lot of things that contain only small amounts of truth. They are certainly going a lot further than Obama is.

But there's a double standard here. I know Democrats will deny that Obama has smeared McCain or gone negative, despite the evaluations on Politifact and Factcheck. But he has. His entire campaign is based on negative. McCain is held to a high character standard. That's understandable. He's built a career based on character. It may not be fair, but he's held to a higher character test than Obama.

Obama is held to no standard. No matter what he says and no matter what ads his campaign runs only right wing talk radio and blogs question his character. Is it because no one expects Obama to act honestly or they just deny he is?

Whatever. It's Laex saying it. Everyone else knows Obama is perfect.

by **pacino** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:08:27

More hate from the left:

Values Voter Summit organizers cut off sales of Obama Waffles boxes on Saturday, saying they had not realized the boxes displayed "offensive material." The summit and the exhibit hall where the boxes were sold had been open since Thursday afternoon.

The box was meant as political satire, said Mark Whitlock and Bob DeMoss, two writers from Franklin, Tenn., who created the mix. They sold it for $10 a box from a rented booth at the summit sponsored by the lobbying arm of the Family Research Council.

David Nammo, executive director of the lobbying group FRC Action, said summit organizers were told the boxes were a parody of Obama's policy positions but had not examined them closely.

Republican Party stalwarts Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney were among speakers at the forum, which officials said drew 2,100 activists from 44 states.
While Obama Waffles takes aim at Obama's politics by poking fun at his public remarks and positions on issues, it also plays off the old image of the pancake-mix icon Aunt Jemima, which has been widely criticized as a demeaning stereotype. Obama is portrayed with popping eyes and big, thick lips as he stares at a plate of waffles and smiles broadly.

Placing Obama in Arab-like headdress recalls the false rumor that he is a follower of Islam, though he is actually a Christian.

more leftist scum:

Here's what Dennis Baxley, a former state legislator from Ocala and the executive director of the Christian Coalition of Florida, one of the most prominent groups on the religious right, said during an interview with the Miami Herald about Obama's outreach to the Christian community:

"He's pretty scary to us,'' he said. "I think his Muslim roots and training -- while they try to minimize it -- it's there."

Asked what he meant, Baxley pointed to Obama's childhood stint in Indonesia and his Muslim relatives.

"That concerns me particularly in the period of history we are living in, when there's an active movement by radical Muslims to occupy us,'' Baxley said of Obama's background. "That whole way of life is all about submission. It concerns me that someone rooted in those beginnings, how it might have affected their outlook. That's what scary for me."

you are so right vox

by **dajafi** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:09:35

VoxOrion wrote:I'll disagree on just about all of your analysis in terms of "fooling" people and "just wants to win" - both are, with all due respect, nonsense. There is not a party in this election who is in it to do the "right thing" despite winning or losing. There just isn't. There never is.

The PDS is so childish (particularly here, times 100 on the left side of the internet), it's wonderful. It's a great tool that forces tigers to show their stripes. The only emotion I see in this campaign that approaches hatred is coming from left - wild proclamations to the contrary notwithstanding.

You've really become the Malcolm McLaren of political discussion, with I guess Palin as your Sid Vicious. On some level, I admire it.

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:10:51

pacino wrote:you are so right vox

Your skill at finding thin gruel anecdotal evidence is breathtaking.

by **mpmcgraw** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:11:35

VoxOrion wrote: The only emotion I see in this campaign that approaches hatred is coming from left - wild proclamations to the contrary notwithstanding.

No kidding, because no one has any self awareness when it comes to politics.

by **pacino** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:12:05

You pishaw legit concerns about Palin's time as governor, while revel in the idea that there's some huge 'hatred' for her very existence. Keep on going with it, I know it gives you joy. Rags like the Washington Post and NY Times are full of lies and deceit about her time in Alaska.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:12:45

You know the Phillies are losing when a stupid fight breaks out in here in the middle of a game.

by **dajafi** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:16:02

jerseyhoya wrote:You know the Phillies are losing when a stupid fight breaks out in here in the middle of a game.

I'll admit I'm much angrier than I'd be if we were up, say, 8-1.

How are the Giants doing? You got the TV/computer side-by-side going?

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:16:05

I don't pishaw it anymore than any of you pishaw Obama's lack of qualifications. The overreaction, American's are stupid, I'm moving to Canada, they're fooling this one, they only care about winning that one - that's what I pishaw.

This attitude hasn't won the Democrats squat and people can't seem to learn that it only serves to throw up a wall and drive people to ignore you as emotional know-it alls.

This is how liberals fail to convince people, and it's happening all over again.

by **jerseyhoya** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:17:06

dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:You know the Phillies are losing when a stupid fight breaks out in here in the middle of a game.

I'll admit I'm much angrier than I'd be if we were up, say, 8-1.

How are the Giants doing? You got the TV/computer side-by-side going?

10-6 late in the second. Don't look great. Giants on the big screen. Phils on the computer.

by **pacino** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:18:24

VoxOrion wrote:I don't pishaw it anymore than any of you pishaw Obama's lack of qualifications. The overreaction, American's are stupid, I'm moving to Canada, they're fooling this one, they only care about winning that one - that's what I pishaw.

This attitude hasn't won the Democrats squat and people can't seem to learn that it only serves to throw up a wall and drive people to ignore you as emotional know-it alls.

This is how liberals fail to convince people, and it's happening all over again.

jerseyhoya does only care about winning, he's stated as much.

You throw up these posts like they somehow matter to any part of electing anyone. This election has become entirely about pointless character and 'leadership' issues, and nothing about issues or opinions on issues. Selecting Palin only sought to solidify that.

'emotional know-it-alls' is such a pointless comment. Thanks, but no thanks

Convince them of what? That Obama doesn't want to teach 5 yr olds how to have sex? Why must people be CONVINCED of that?

by **VoxOrion** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:20:15

Pointless or not, "in the moment or not", you can deny what you read here all you want. Folks are downright irrational about Palin.

These attitudes absolutely matter, but the fact that you don't recognize it bodes well.

by **dajafi** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:20:56

jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:You know the Phillies are losing when a stupid fight breaks out in here in the middle of a game.

I'll admit I'm much angrier than I'd be if we were up, say, 8-1.

How are the Giants doing? You got the TV/computer side-by-side going?

10-6 late in the second. Don't look great. Giants on the big screen. Phils on the computer.

The last play I saw was the TD to Burress. Hard to believe they aren't killing them, though maybe the Rams' D is slightly less horrific at home.

by **pacino** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 14:21:32

People are not irrational about Palin. SHe's simply LYING out there on the campaign trail about being a reformer and rejecting hte bridge to nowhere. I mean COME ON.

THANKS BUT NO THANKS (but thanks, give me the money please)

edit: Last thing. I could post up articles from teh NY Times and Washington Post outlining several things she did while governor and mayor showing how little of a reformer she is...they would be poo-pooed by you as 'irrational' and 'hatred'. I could outline why she's lying about the bridge to nowhere, it's simply me being emotional. I could do anything, and you, being immune to logic until November 5th, would ignore it and say I'm being emotional or a know-it-all or somehow being a sexist in some way. So I'm done. This thread sucks.

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Palin Power! Politics Thread

Sarah Palin: Great VP pick, or the greatest VP Pick?