ptk /= not a democrat laexile. sorry to burst your bubble in your rant against democrats and how they don't understand poor people

very few of us on this board actually meet poor people on a daily basis. poor people don't vote a great deal. they aren't working the polls or volunteering or being talked about in this presidential race, or in any political race.

pacino, my point exactly. If we don't know them, how can we know why they vote the way they do. No, ptk isn't a Democrat, but he isn't the first to say that rural America is voting against their interests, are racists, and cling to religion. Democrats seem to assume that their candidate will get elected if people were just informed enough.

Very interesting article on Palin as governor. It amazes me how no one cares about her record governing to tell you how she'd govern as President. Not only hasn't, she hasn’t pushed a social agenda in Alaska, but she’s refused to add two abortion restriction measures to a special legislative session.

Sarah Palin can have any point of view on abortion she wants. How she governs is what’s important. If you watched the Republican National Convention you saw that McCain’s speech included foreign and fiscal policy issues extensively, there was barely a mention of social issues. Social conservatives despise John McCain. Reading his agenda, social issues won't be a big part of a McCain administration. Obama is the one who has talked about expanding faith based initiatives.

VoxOrion wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:Race is an issue. It's one of the big reasons why poor white people vote for people like Bush and likely now, McCain, it's why they become "ditto heads" and their kids become neo-nazi.

[imagine a pointless rant about the idiocy of these comments]

Vox, I know my hyperboles grate on your nerves. So I'll retract the ditto heads etc... but race ia an issue and Tim Wise has a very deep analysis of this with historical precendents back to colonial times. Race is a very complex issue and to say its not in play still in general let alone in the election that could put the first African American in office -- you really don't see that? I suggest you look up some of Tim Wise, get past his hyperbole and think about his analysis.

I thought all evangelicals would vote for Bush over Kerry, but 6:1 African American evangelicals voted for Kerry. People vote aginst their class interests. They see differences with people that they have far more in common with? And race is part of the explanation.

Laexile wrote:

VoxOrion wrote:

Philly the Kid wrote:Race is an issue. It's one of the big reasons why poor white people vote for people like Bush and likely now, McCain, it's why they become "ditto heads" and their kids become neo-nazi.

[imagine a pointless rant about the idiocy of these comments]

ptk spends all his time in the Midwest, Mountain States, and South with poor white people. He's asked them why they voted for Bush.

One of the reasons Democrats lose is that they think that anyone making less than $250,000 couldn't vote for the Republicans on fiscal issues, so they must be racist homophobe whacked out abortion clinic bombing Christians. If you don't know why they vote Republican, how can you win their vote?

You deeply mistaken as to who I am, who I know, where i've been. And you of all people who cite a variety of sources to form you opinions really don't want to pull the "if you don't know em personally, you couldn' tbegin to udnerstand who they think...". There are lots of books, research, interviews and analyses. I'm involved in a project right now that is developing online skills training and for low-literacy adults. This will include the inner-city like Newark New Jersey and rural Idaho, Georgia, and South Dakota -- I'm doing a testing in Oklahoma in Oct.

Be careful before you brand me some ivy league NYC leftwing liberal Democrat who thinks he knows what's best for all.

I have a view of history, and day-to-day reality. And nothing to do with Democratic or Republican politics or even capitalism -- is the mere fact that I have developed my own beliefs about ways mankind should interact and self-organize -- and they are rooted in things like fairness, sharing the abundance of the earth, respect for the planet and others -- and a variety of things found in many philosphies and relgions, not in acadmia or left-wing peace rally.

Laexile wrote:pacino, my point exactly. If we don't know them, how can we know why they vote the way they do. No, ptk isn't a Democrat, but he isn't the first to say that rural America is voting against their interests, are racists, and cling to religion. Democrats seem to assume that their candidate will get elected if people were just informed enough.

Very interesting article on Palin as governor. It amazes me how no one cares about her record governing to tell you how she'd govern as President. Not only hasn't, she hasn’t pushed a social agenda in Alaska, but she’s refused to add two abortion restriction measures to a special legislative session.

Sarah Palin can have any point of view on abortion she wants. How she governs is what’s important. If you watched the Republican National Convention you saw that McCain’s speech included foreign and fiscal policy issues extensively, there was barely a mention of social issues. Social conservatives despise John McCain. Reading his agenda, social issues won't be a big part of a McCain administration. Obama is the one who has talked about expanding faith based initiatives.

The only thing I would really take issue with is the phrase "if they knew enough". I think that people have been manipulated and lied to over and over. And I think if they knew who was really f'ng them, and they knew the depth of the lies and manipulation -- so it's not -- if you only understood the world the way I do, but rather, if you were able to learn how you'd been lied to and manipulated, and why, and who was behind it, how they really felt about you and your prospects -- that even poor folks, less educated folks, and evangelicals would probably come to new conclusions and make different decisions. This has nothing to do with Obama/McCain.

I am not a DNC Democrat, I'm probably not even a JFK democrat. I'm probably a bit left of a FDR new deal democrat, because my political views aren't really separate from philosophical views, and personal view of humanity and morality. No political party represents me really.

I'm not advocating the gray flannel suits and walking like drones ala Fritz Lang's Metropolous 1926 ... I believe there is a middle-space where enterprise can thrive, but monopolies are no more. Where we can have a healthier more fulfilled population that is more positive than negative, less fearful, and more sharing, collegiality. I'm very in to regionalism. Rather than the homogenization of America. Many of my views would seem sort of socialistic, but I think there is a way to not have everyone be the same, or people get a free ride off the efforts of others -- and yet not have a big monstrous beaurocratic arbitrary govt that demotivates and is in-efficient. it's up to smart people to figure out solutions.

There are a lot of SUPER un-healthy things going in in our culture, society, violence. It can't be a good thing to be expanging prison and prison population, private security and militarity, bloated militarism as our foregin policy, -- Bush Docrtine. Some people call it the war with iraq, other might call it the invasion and illegal occupation of Iraq.

It's not 'if you only knew what I knew", it's that I believe a lot of people (includiong me by the way) have been flat out lied to over n over and because the layersof complexity with how things work and really are, make it very hard for an average person to really know -- that if this stuff was uncovered really uncovered, and they simply had the facts as they are, not my interpretation of those facts, just the facts. Things would change radically.

are poor ppl even allowed to vote

McCain up to 57% chance of winning at 538. The national poll shift continues to manifest itself in the newer state polls.

Also, if you see Zogby polls, ignore them if they're Zogby Interactive polls. They're fucking awful.

jerseyhoya wrote:[img]poll%20pies[/img]

McCain up to 57% chance of winning at 538. The national poll shift continues to manifest itself in the newer state polls.

Also, if you see Zogby polls, ignore them if they're Zogby Interactive polls. They're $#@! awful.

while we're at it, i'm comfortable with ignoring the poll info you're posting as well

nothing personal; it's only mid-Sept

Um, low income people do prefer Democrats. But I suppose in PtK's San Francisco $300 Tommy Bahama shirt wearing world, 50-75k count as poor.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/ ... lls.0.html

jerseyhoya wrote:Why McCain is Going So Negative, So Often

It adds up to a campaign that is now unapologetically aggressive and aimed almost entirely at keeping Obama off-message, even if it means hitting him below the belt in the process.

“Clearly we intend to stay on offense,” Rogers said. “That’s what we need to do because the campaign is fundamentally about him. We feel comfortable about the ads we’re running and arguments we’re making.”

a few descriptive words come to mind: loathsome. repugnant. low.

this Rogers is a real prince. Why didn't he just say "we intend to stay on the offensive" - no harm in being accurate.

but you, hoya - I'm picturing you puffing out your chest

please prove me wrong

NO ONE EXPECTS POLITICS AS USUAL!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06CvUjLgK5g[/youtube]

Maybe Obama should replace Biden with Larry the Cable Guy

Woody wrote:are poor ppl even allowed to vote

one certainly hopes not

What does poor go for during election cycles? $90-100K?

Everytime I see her, I want to take a hammer to my television.

I'm sure she's a nice person, loves Jesus and her children, etc....but her selection as VP being the impetus for McCain's resurgence and likely election win is the defining moment in America's long transformation into a country of morons.

BDS becomes PDS?

Oh, it's already happened. It's nuts.

VoxOrion wrote:BDS becomes PDS?

I'm afraid so, although PDS progresses much more quickly in patients than BDS.

whenever i think about this election, the movie idiocracy comes to mind.